Elbows

[Patrick Chase]

But you get much more speed through your arms then moving your whole body.

But I am open for critique, and whiling to change my habbits.

Really? A reasonably athletic human can run at 15 mph for short distances without much trouble (and elite athletes have sustained a mile-plus at that speed since Bannister). That's ~23 feet/second. How fast do you think you need to move a plane? I think the answer is "less than walking pace" FWIW.

Planing is more about power than speed.

[Patrick Chase]

Thanks David, that's very clear.

One point though, you take a thin shaving from a narrow board, that doesn't take much force. I am not a strong guy, reasonably fit, but not strong. I choose to use speed to assist the hard work of planing rough sawn boards, and with just your legs it is kind of hard to get up enough speed.

Sorry about the double-reply, but two more remarks:

1. Speed literally doesn't get you very far. Let's make some generous assumptions: I estimate your planing speed as 3 m/sec at most from the video (which is quite a lot as planing goes). If your plane has 3 kg mass, then the kinetic energy is 13.5 Joules. Energy is just force times distance, so that much energy will carry the plane through 13.5 Newtons of resistance for 1 meter. 13.5 N is ~1.4 kgf or ~3 lbs. In other words, the amount of speed you're building up can't possibly do much to carry the plane through the stroke.

2. Not being strong is a reason to AVOID arm planing. Even weak people have vastly higher core and leg strength than arm strength, and your arms can resist a higher load than they can actively drive. Also, your core has vastly higher mass than any plane or than your arms, so if you get your core moving then you actually *will* be able to exploit momentum/energy to carry through the cut.

Intrestingly both of your argument actually appear to be reasons to not arm-plane.

[Kees Heiden]

This is strating to be real fun! Thanks for the comments Patrck, you are completely right of course. I was just put on the wrong leg because Charles posted a video with a very light shaving whle I am working on some energy sapping stuff!

Here is a new video, as you can see I try hard to get my legs and body working.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n889PPeUFRg

[Graham Haydon]

I don't think there is a like for like comparison here. David's example if a fine cut on on thin stock close to the edge of a bench. Kees has rough sawn wood and needs to make it clean and true for work. If there was an 8" wide board to be prepared or even smoothed I find the arms have to come into play. I'm pretty mediocre at taking rough wood to planed ready for work, when I do I try to prevent my elbows from completely straightened. But I find the arms do need to be used, unless it's shooting long edges.

[Brian Holcombe]

Here's more fodder for the conversation.

https://youtu.be/dtACbdWWgl4

When going along the grain with the try plane I am mostly using my legs, not overextending arms.

[Graham Haydon]

You make woodworking look very stylish Brian, I feel like a hobo after watching that!

[Kees Heiden]

Indeed! I'm a hobo too!
But you certainly give a push with your arms too Brian.

[Brian Holcombe]

Haha! That's my schtick.

I do push but you might notice it's s full body movement, hard not too when you are working panels. That panel is 18.5" x 36".

My right side elbow never extends past about 100 degrees with the try plane or Jack.

[Patrick Chase]

Indeed! I'm a hobo too!
But you certainly give a push with your arms too Brian.

Cross strokes like that are an exception - You can't really get your body fully into it because the bench is in the way. Like Brian I focus on initiating with a step to get as much "drive from the core" as possible (at least I think that's what he's doing, too bad his feet are out of frame) but then you have to finish with the arm to some degree, esp on wider work.

Jeans and an Izod shirt *are* hobo for Brian. When he's serious he wears a robe. He probably cropped his feet out because he doesn't want us to know that he's also not wearing slippers.

[Brian Holcombe]

On that note I will post this video;

https://youtu.be/mEmS7n0es1g

[Kees Heiden]

Cross strokes like that are an exception - You can't really get your body fully into it because the bench is in the way. Like Brian I focus on initiating with a step to get as much "drive from the core" as possible (at least I think that's what he's doing, too bad his feet are out of frame) but then you have to finish with the arm to some degree, esp on wider work.

Jeans and an Izod shirt *are* hobo for Brian. When he's serious he wears a robe. He probably cropped his feet out because he doesn't want us to know that he's also not wearing slippers.

From 2:30 onwards it is a few bits of tryplane work with the grain. Each planing impuls does start with an arm push, but there is obviously a lot of body work too.

[Warren Mickley]

I watched the videos. The damage comes at two points where your body gets a jolt. One is when the plane first engages the timber the second is when the plane is suddenly stalled by the timber. These jolts are very destructive to the body. I would not recommend taking full length cuts with so much iron (projection) that the plane stalls.

For using the jack plane, pick a section of the board, maybe 15 or 18 inches, lift up the plane, ease into the cut and then ease out of the cut. Kind of a scooping action. Take a number of cuts planing with the grain, then move to another section. At the beginning of the cut, your arms are going at the same speed as your body, then they are extended mid cut while things are going smoothly. When you use the trying plane you can take sectional cuts also; if taking full length shavings, the cut should be light enough that you don't stall, at least not with a jerk. Smooth technique will help your body.

[Brian Holcombe]

Warren, I've noticed that if I am over agressive with my jack plane setting it actually slows me down. I wind up at like a medium to heavy cut for most work along the grain. So, it is encouraging to see what you have written.

Kees, here is a bit more planing with the try plane. Wide panel again do my reach is slightly extended at times.

https://youtu.be/Mr9zzO8vuVo

Next round of videos I'll back the camera up to show leg movements. Many you-tubers wanted to see up close, the shavings, so I took a close video. The camera got buried by accident but I thought it to be entertaining, so I kept that part.

[Kees Heiden]

That's very helpfull Warren. And Brian too. I am for sure way too agressive. No wonder my body hurts. In the end I do get nice flat and straight boards, but it would be great if it was efficient too.

Anyone want to comment on my third video from post #48? Am I on the right track? Those were full length shavings. I like the idea of working short bits, especially with the jack plane.

[Brian Holcombe]

Kees, do you have any camber to that Try plane's iron?

I think that second video looks better.