Deep Glass finishing with Wipe-on Poly

[Brian Kent]

I am working on a piece where the deeper the gloss, the better it looks. I would like to ask how others achieve the deep gloss on their "show" pieces.

This is the Ipe piece I have been working on. It is sanded through 1200 and I am adding layers. I think I just added #5. I put it on thick and then wipe off with the grain. The most I have ever tried is about 7 layers of wipe-on Poly (Clear gloss minwax Poly cut by 1/2 with Paint Thinner). Then I hand sand very lightly with 1200 between coats.

Some of my best results have been after waiting for full dry (30 days) and then polishing with Beall's White Diamond and Carnuba wax, Renaissance Wax, or Black Bison Wax.

So for those who have come up with great results in the deep gloss field, can you give away your trade secrets ?

The two photos are after 2 coats and with a wet coat before wiping off.

[Prashun Patel]

A lot of turners love poly. I believe the spinning nature of a lathe allows them to overcome some of the inherent handicaps with poly. Specifically, poly is softer than other varnishes and takes more effort to buff to a higher sheen.

You will get a clearer finish with less effort if you use a phenolic resin varnish like Waterlox Original Finish - High Gloss - not original sealer finish. The high gloss finish is a full strength varnish, so requires thinning with mineral spirits. It is not as dark as the Original Sealer Finish. The OSF is a wonderful varnish in its own

Spraying shellac or lacquer is even easier, but if you have to apply on the lathe, I find both to heat up and melt at buffing speeds which makes it harder for me to get the glassy look.

(edit) If you are looking to improve your speed, then you can greatly speed things up by doing your first few coats with shellac. These can be applied within minutes of each other. After the final one, let it dry overnight. Sand flat the next day. Then when you switch to your varnish, it will begin to build immediately.

[Steve Schlumpf]

Brian - what works for me is that the first coat of poly is used to saturate and seal the wood - so it goes on thick and sits for about 20 minutes before I wipe off the excess. I let that dry for at least a day and then depending on whether the wood looks sealed or not, give it another saturating coat or start top-coating. I use foam makeup sponges (wedges) and apply a thin coat of poly to the piece and let that dry. Depending on temp and humidity - it can be dry in just a couple of hours. I usually put on 5 thin coats of poly and let it dry - then lightly sand that back but only enough to remove any bumps or dust in the finish. I then repeat another 5 thin coats of poly - let dry and knock back just enough to make smooth. I then apply another couple of coats just to cover any sanding marks and let that dry. When applying the poly - I use the 'French Polish' method in that you apply the poly quickly and without going over any missed areas because you will coat the missed area on the next application. Don't go back over anything while it is wet because it will lift the finish and screw it up. Then you have to wait for it to dry and sand that section down and basically have to start all over again!

Depending on level of gloss envisioned - I have put on as many as 15 coats of poly... or as little as 7. I know people that have put on as many as 30 coats! Depends on the wood and how well the coating process went. I let everything dry for at least 2 weeks - preferably for a month or longer - then buff. Very seldom do I start buffing with white diamond anymore unless the surface is rough to the touch because of dust. I have had pretty good luck buffing with a compound that Don Pencil sold that was specifically made for poly but I am not sure he is in business anymore. In which case, use white diamond, low buffer speed, light pressure and keep the piece moving as poly will melt if it gets too hot.

I use Renaissance wax as a final protective coat. Works great and doesn't show fingerprints or moisture.

Good luck!

Forgot to mention - I do all my finishing off the lathe.

[daryl moses]

I agree with Prashun. The easiest way I've found for a really glossy look is to use spray on Lacquer.
I don't care for the plastic look that lacquer gives for bowls etc, but have used it for bandsaw boxes.

[CHARLES D Richards]

Brian,
I have been using WOP for about 8 months and like the finish. I apply 2 coats on unwaxed shellac (one coat, wait till dry, then next coat), wait overnight, then sand to smooth finish but not to remove the shellac. Then I apply WOP with a paper towel. Since the wood is sealed with the shellac it only takes about 5 coats of WOP to produce a glass like shine. I used to sand between coats of the WOP, but now I just wait till the end of the process and wet sand with 1500.

At least for me this method does not look 'plastic' but deeper, more glassy and makes the grain pop more. Without the shellac it takes 12-15 coats of WOP to achieve the same look (IMHO)

I have seen no yellowing or cracking of the WOP with this method (at least not after 8-9 months). I have done about 60 bowls this way and have been very pleased. At least for those who like a shiny finish it is my go to process.

Dave

[Marvin Hasenak]

If I want a deep shine the wipe on poly has too much thinner in it. I go with straight high gloss polyurethane, I can build the "depth" up a lot faster. I also do not buff for at least a month, if I can still smell the finish, it hasn't cured yet.

[Geoff Whaling]

Brian, I have achieved very nice deep gloss finishes on competition pieces, but the work involved is excessive for the results obtained.

WOP takes far to long to cure between coats for sanding. The more coats you apply the longer the drying time becomes.and as you say if you wish to buff & polish it becomes an long drawn out process

Whereas if you can still use nitro cellulose lacquer in your area (banned in some) the whole process is over in a day or two.

Tip - be carefull sanding to very fine grits between coats with WOP as it creates "onion layers" that are really not keyed to each other more like seperate layers wrapping around on another. Like me you may find this out at the almost finished stage. NC lacquer actually partially disolves the previous coat so keys well.

[robert baccus]

You can do a "museum" finish with lacquer, sanding sealer, a bit of wet sanding, liquid auto compounds containing carnuba wax and fine abrasives in 4-6 hours all on the lathe. Really hard to sign on the lathe however. A classy gloss finish and pretty wood sells very well. Nice pieces you are turning out these days-very nice.

[Prashun Patel]

To add to Geoff's advice:

You can reduce the latency of the WOP process by applying 2-3 coats in 30-45 minute succession, then letting the piece dry overnight, sanding, then repeating. The coats are so thin, sanding between each coat can be unnecessarily aggressive. The 2nd and 3rd coats in the series may drag a little and certainly don't go on as smooth as the 1st, but they have the effect of fusing with each other into a single thicker layer, which resists the onion-peeling you advised about, and allows you to rub-out (or as we say on the Turner's Forum, buff) the finish more aggressively after the final curing.

[Brian Kent]

Prashun, I look forward to trying Waterlox on turned pieces. In the process of turning large numbers of pieces for one order, I have had to use systems that dried more quickly. I will soon be doing more pieces just a couple at a time so I can afford to not stir up for 12 hours at a time. Also, Dewaxed Shellac and WOP are so much less expensive than Waterlox.

Another though, since I don't have a "finishing room" (or a "photo room" or a "sales floor") I have been thinking about a dedicated drying cabinet with shelves and filtered ventilation - made out of one of the garage cabinets.

[Prashun Patel]

Brian-

You should consider getting some spray equipment. The Earlex or Fuji Semi Pro aren't *that* expensive, and they pay for themselves with ease and quality of finish on the very first coat. A properly sprayed finish requires no rubbing/buffing.

Varnish is hard to spray properly, so I don't do it. I spray shellac and waterbased "poly" which is really some kind of acryilic resin. There are some fairly durable products out there. They dry within minutes. The waterbased finishes don't have the same flammability risks as lacquer or oil finishes, so the investment in ventilation equipment and personal protection is lower.

[joe marra]

Brian, I have been using poly acrylic high gloss with great results. Brushing on with very thin coats and dries very quickly, multiple coats in short amount of time. Buffs to very high gloss. Also doesn't yellow. Good luck

[Geoff Whaling]

Brian, I have been using poly acrylic high gloss with great results. Brushing on with very thin coats and dries very quickly, multiple coats in short amount of time. Buffs to very high gloss. Also doesn't yellow. Good luck

Unfortunately a lot of the clear finishes will yellow over time, or modify the colour when applied, some not so much as others.

Prashun's tips on applying multiple light coats in quick succession does work well - on some timbers and profiles. Most of my experience with WOP has been with Minwax satin & gloss. I have found that it simply will not cure in a reasonable time frame with some Australian timbers and that on small spindle turned items it tends to wick to sharp external corners and takes much longer to dry on those parts of a profile. The larger "flat" areas dry then cure well, however those sharp edges remain "rubbery" for considerably longer. As you guys say ymmv.

[Brian Kent]

I should come and check out your shop, Geoff, because… Australia.

[thomas prusak]

A friend of mine is a gun stock maker and he sprays the stocks with automotive clearcoat. The best gloss finish I've ever seen. I just wish I knew more about his process so that I could tell you more.