Stanley #50 or #45

[Lonnie Gallaher]

I have the opportunity to pick up a complete #50 in great shape. I have been looking for a #45. Any pros or cons one to the other?

Thanks.

[Jim Koepke]

I have used #45s for a few years and find them real handy for many jobs.

A while back I saw a #50 for about $25 and decided to give it a go. Mine is an older model without a blade adjuster and it was far from complete.

I actually like it for some work compared to a #45. It is especially useful on smaller work like boxes and slots for drawer bottoms.

My advice is to get the #50 and if one comes along also get a #45.

The blades are different between the two. Short #45 blades will work on my old #50. The adjusting mechanisms are different between the two models.

The #45 is a more versatile plane. The #50 is more agile.

jtk

[Lonnie Gallaher]

Jim, thanks for the comments. It appears to be a late WW2 model. Japanned body with rose wood handle.

[Stephen Clement]

It really depends on what task you want it for and why you want it. If you want an excellent, trouble free user, get neither and buy the Veritas plough. If you would like a Veritas plough, but can't afford it now, get the 50. If you want an iconic piece of history to use every now and then but have other tools to fulfill its purpose, get a 45. The 50 is very similar to the Veritas (based on Record 44) but you don't get the LV innovations and superior manufacturing. The 50 can't do the wide blades that the 45 can, but how often do you really need a 1" groove that you can't do with a saw and chisel or 2 1/4" plough passes and then a chisel/router plane.

I used to own a 45 in great condition and it was still an unbearable claptrap. The sidewall of the bed is cast, so it may or may not be parallel to the skate. Mine was so far off that the corner of the blade was inside the skate track. The blade would inevitable slip and start marring the wood as the askew blade scraped the sidewalk. The 45 has way too many attachments that you don't need. That said, it would be nice to still own it for the novelty, but selling it paid for my Veritas which is an actually usable tool.

You could get lucky and get a good 45, but visual condition isn't enough to tell. Every Veritas is certain to be equal to or better than the best vintage you could find.

[steven c newman]

^Spoken like a true Veritas Salesman


Have the #45, a Type 20, from Roxton Pond, Que. Canada. The above might have checked for dirt and grime in the corner of the blade seat.....had to clean mine out. Irons fit perfectly. Been cutting beads lately, might be more than a simple Plough plane could handle......

[Jim Koepke]

The main trick to the #45 is to remember that almost every blade needs to be set up like a rabbet plane for both sides. If the moveable skate/runner is off too much one way or the other it will bind in the cut. It needs to remove material outside of the skates/runners. It is also necessary to keep the blade lock tight for normal work as there are some amazing forces working on the blade. If it isn't tight, it is prone to slipping.

The #50 is easier as I recall since the moveable fence also holds the tension on the blade. The problem with this set up is if the bolt to hold the smaller blades, 1/8 & 3/16", is missing, then those blades can not be used. The later models also have a screw to keep the moveable runner/skate from twisting. Read all about it here:

http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan7.htm#num50

On almost all of my planes with fences and depth stops my routine is to check all the locking bolts during the job. This habit has saved my bacon more than a few times.

jtk

[Kees Heiden]

For a dedicated plow, get a Record 044! I have had the Stanley #50 too, but was never quite happy with it. I don't know exactly why, but it was finicky to set up. I didn't get to grips with the adjuster, the double skate wasn't as easy as it looked like. In contrast the 044 is dead nuts simple AND effective. It also cuts quite a bit deeper.

[Patrick Chase]

For a dedicated plow, get a Record 044! I have had the Stanley #50 too, but was never quite happy with it. I don't know exactly why, but it was finicky to set up. I didn't get to grips with the adjuster, the double skate wasn't as easy as it looked like. In contrast the 044 is dead nuts simple AND effective. It also cuts quite a bit deeper.

All of this talk about not being able to do this or that with various planes makes me realize that what you really need is a 55.

You can find them in [near-]mint condition for some reason, and in theory it can do anything. Empirical evidence demonstrates a 2 in a bazillion chance that you'll actually like it enough to use it (the "two" being Jim and some guy who wrote a FWW piece extolling its virtues).

[Patrick Chase]

The 50 can't do the wide blades that the 45 can, but how often do you really need a 1" groove that you can't do with a saw and chisel or 2 1/4" plough passes and then a chisel/router plane.

IMO the "killer application" for the second skate kit is cutting tongues, not grooves.

[Jim Koepke]

All of this talk about not being able to do this or that with various planes makes me realize that what you really need is a 55.

You can find them in [near-]mint condition for some reason, and In theory it can do anything. Empirical evidence demonstrates a 2 in a bazillion chance that you'll actually like it enough to use it (the "two" being Jim and some guy who wrote a FWW extolling its virtues).

It seems Patrick you may actually have the question backwards.

This thread started with a simple request for information:

I have the opportunity to pick up a complete #50 in great shape. I have been looking for a #45. Any pros or cons one to the other?

An opportunity has presented itself to the OP. It is not the plane they have been considering, but it has similar functions. No price was mentioned so it is up to the OP to decide on that point. Most likely they know how to use ebay to find the prices of comparable items.

Of course, many of these threads tend to lose focus of the original intent.

So instead of commenting on the deal at hand we get comments on how the OP should get this plane or that plane.

I do use my #55 on occasion. For most purposes a #45 is much easier at getting the job done. In some cases the #50 is the better choice. Of course that is all just my opinion.

If it hasn't been clear on my part in the past of the #55 being a difficult plane to use, let me reiterate it here. I would not suggest the #55 for anyone's first multi-function plane. The #45 can be perplexing to many folks. One respondent to this thread said they couldn't get theirs to work. There is a lot of subtleties needing attention to get it to work. In this regard the #50 and other planes are much easier to set up to achieve one's desired results. The only reason one should even consider a #55 is for the complex shapes it can cut which planes other than dedicated molding planes are incapable of cutting.

If the OP gets a good price on the #50 plane in question, they can use it and keep it. If they are not satisfied perhaps they can sell it for what they paid or maybe even turn a bit of a profit. That is one thing I alway attempt to do when buying old tools, buy them at a price below what they might achieve on the open market.

So to recap; the OP asked for the pros and cons on the #45 & #50, mine were freely given.

In the end I feel like I have received a poke in the eye with a sharp stick for trying to help another member.

Thanks a lot.

jtk

[Tom M King]

novdec2012 012 (1024x768).jpg

For a dedicated plow, get a Record 044! I have had the Stanley #50 too, but was never quite happy with it. I don't know exactly why, but it was finicky to set up. I didn't get to grips with the adjuster, the double skate wasn't as easy as it looked like. In contrast the 044 is dead nuts simple AND effective. It also cuts quite a bit deeper.

Just make sure it's not an 044C, as opposed to an 044. Don't buy an 044C. I have one that I bought new, and wish I had known enough back then to send it back soon after I bought it. It has the worst depth stop adjustment ever, using a screw that goes down into a plastic bushing, which is supposed to expand and hold the depth stop in place. It doesn't. I like the Record cutters though, and use them in one of a couple of 55's. I was looking for a 45, and ran across a deal on a 55, then found another one cheap enough for me. The 55's work just fine.

The picture shows a 55 being used as a plow. They're pretty simple to set up for simple jobs like plowing where you don't need both fences, not to mention to do any job when your couple of hundred molding planes won't do what you need.

[Allen Hunt]

Might consider a Stanley 46 too.

[Patrick Chase]

Might consider a Stanley 46 too.

Skew that! :-)

[Robert Engel]

45 - a fun little tool to mess with, but when its on the line in a project and there's no room for error?

Not a "go to" tool, IMO.

You're better off buying or making a quality plow plane.

[Jim Koepke]

45 - a fun little tool to mess with, but when its on the line in a project and there's no room for error?

Not a "go to" tool, IMO.

You're better off buying or making a quality plow plane.

I think it all comes down to experience.

If it sits on the shelf and only gets used on 'special occasions' then it might be a frustrating and difficult plane to use.


Yes, in the past I have had poor results with the Stanley #45. My own experience has proven user error can seem to multiply any problems exponentially. Setting the moveable runner off by just a hair or two can make trying to plow a groove difficult or trying to cut a bead next to impossible. Having a blade slightly cocked can also make for a bad experience. There are a lot of parts with which on has to contend. Once the usual hurdles are left behind in can be a marvelous tool for many uses.

If it gets used often just for 'practice' when a little time allows it starts to work like the old analogy of learning to ride a bike.

Some nice work can be done with a #45. As one example:

Tile Top Side Table.jpg

The reeding (4 beads) on this was done with a Stanley #45.

I have also made some simple moldings with just a #45. Now my tools assortment includes a lot of molding planes to make more complex moldings but the #45 can still spread its wings and contribute to the show.

I think even if one were to purchase a new plow plane there will still be some learning curve though be it less steep.

jtk