Yes, You Need a Jointer and a Jack

[Patrick Chase]

It appears that a few noses are out of joint with regard my use of "Fanboys". And they are correct to be. It was said in jest, and clearly struck a nerve, and this was wrong of me to word things this way. To those I offended, I apologise.

[snip]

Clearly I was a jerk. I am all for supporting newcomers to woodworking. I need to be more tolerant.

Regards from Perth

Derek

To be clear, I understood your posts as you intended them and wasn't responding to you in #34. Ironically you accumulated your own sort of "bandwagon" in this thread IMO.... :-)

[george wilson]

Derek deservedly does have his own followers. And certainly not just because of this thread.

[Pat Barry]

What? 4 chisels? AND a backsaw, AND a Stanley plane? You could do with just one chisel, break the wood over your knee and cut of the fibers with the one chisel. Attach the chisel to a block of wood and you have a plane. Forget about the mallet too, use any lump of wood lying around. Or a street brick.

Of course that is nonsence. The above small kit of tools is a perfect way to get started on your first steps in making things from wood. As long as you keep with predimensioned pine and poplar from the box store, you can continue for quite a while. But when you want to grow, when you want to use rough sawn wood, when you want to make larger or more complex things, it just makes sence to slowly add to your tool collection. We are not talking about a fully outfitted specialised shop, just the basics. A jackplane (cheap!) a jointer (can be a cheaper wooden one). When you want to incorporate some grooves in your work, then a plow plane starts to be a really good idea, etc.

Clinging all the time to the idea that everything can be done with a #4 gets limiting after a while. It would be a good idea of Paul Sellers to acknowledge that fact and teach how the traditional aproach of woodworking really works.

Kees - that isn't necessary. All you have to do is look at his videos and see a huge array of tools in the background to know that he doesn't 'just' use the #4 handplane.

[george wilson]

Kees, I have seen work done by some which looked like it was done according to your first sentences in the above post!!

[Chris Fournier]

The take away from these threads (which come up with nauseating regularity) is that everyone should spend their time at their own benches figuring this stuff out for themselves. This is woodworking after all, there are no secrets just not yet practised skills.

People who write and teach want people who read and attend, they are always selling something...

[george wilson]

Yes,they ARE,Chris!!(always selling something!)

If you want guru status,do a lot of writing,maybe start a TV show,and many will believe everything that comes out of your mouth.

[Patrick Chase]

What? 4 chisels? AND a backsaw, AND a Stanley plane? You could do with just one chisel, break the wood over your knee and cut of the fibers with the one chisel. Attach the chisel to a block of wood and you have a plane. Forget about the mallet too, use any lump of wood lying around. Or a street brick.

Of course that is nonsence. The above small kit of tools is a perfect way to get started on your first steps in making things from wood. As long as you keep with predimensioned pine and poplar from the box store, you can continue for quite a while.

If you look at the projects people build in Sellars' classes I think they demonstrate convincingly that you're making an overstatement here. I don't see any reason why you couldn't be effective in common hardwoods (soft maple, birch, mahogany, etc) with that setup.

[Kees Heiden]

As long as its predimensioned. Working from large, rough sawn boards with just a Stanley #4 with a straight blade, a backsaw and 4 chisels is going to be a challenge. Just like adding some mouldings or building a wardrobe.

[Karl Wicklund]

Schwarz, Underhill, Sellers, et al are teachers, mostly producing content for beginners. Easing the entry to to woodworking, sure, and also piquing interest. Keeping things simple and direct is a reasonable part of this.

I am a high school teacher. If I tell students, "Here's a way to go about [whatever process], but here's this other way, and a third way, and then there's this unusual circumstance that doesn't fit, oh and then here's something else cool, and..." those students are lost in a mire of information. It might be accurate and applicable information, but it's too much. If they master the simple material first, they have some context and experience to master the nuance.

I'm sure a few of my kids get to college and argue with a professor - "That's not how I learned it!" That's frustrating, but at least they are invested in and confident with the material. Hopefully their eyes get opened along the way. I'd way rather students do that than meet new ideas with a shrug.

When Schwarz and Sellers say "Do it this way" they are keeping it digestible. If some people to take a particularly effective teacher's lessons as the whole Truth, I don't think faulting the teachers is really fair.

It's always tempting to roll our eyes when a newbie starts preaching things they just learned, but mostly it's the joy of discovery they are trying to share. To some grizzled vets it's old news, to others it's simply wrong. But I've been that new guy, and nothing turns me off more than the masters who scoff. An offer to show a different way, some encouraging advice goes a long way to helping us take a little broader view.

Also, I agree what this forum is generally blessed free of that attitude. It's why I keep coming here.

[Stew Hagerty]

I think that I have a nice "set" of planes.
Vintage Stanley Bench Planes: #40 Scrub Plane, #3, #4, #4 1/2, #5, #5 1/4, #5 1/2, #6, #7, and #8.
I also have a LN Rabbeting Block Plane, LV Low Angle Block Plane w/knob & tote, LV BU Smoother, LV Large Shoulder Plane, LV Skew Rabbet Plane, LV Router Plane, ECE Jointer Plane, ECE Mortise Plane, ECE Jack Plane, ECE Rabbet Plane, ECE Block Plane, ECE Primus 711 Smoother (for sale if anyone is interested), and a several miscellaneous Vintage Planes.
I consider myself a Hybrid Woodworker, but I believe that I tend to use most of my handplanes more regularly than many do.

[Hilton Ralphs]

Interesting that on Chris' blog, he only has eleven (11) responses whereas here the post count in this thread is now close to sixty (60).

We even were mentioned on Twitter!

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Good to discuss this stuff.

[Jason Dean]

This may not add anything to the discussion, but (in an effort to lighten the mood) reading all these comments puts me in mind of every Kung Fu movie I've ever seen. "My Master's British Style is superior to your Master's Kentucky style." (over-dubbed in English of course.) "Very well, let us plane shavings!" "Ha Ha Ha, my convex bevels shall defeat your ruler trick". . . . .

[Jim Koepke]

I think that I have a nice "set" of planes.

Sometimes my thoughts turn toward my being on the verge of having too many planes. They are taking over all the space in my shop. I start to run from them, I stop to catch my breath... Then I wakeup and brew my morning coffee.

jtk

[steven c newman]

picture.jpg
A little fuzzy......

[Len Coleman]

As someone who is in the process of retiring, I have been moving to using hand tools in the last couple of years I figure I will have plenty of time ( god willing) to hone my skills. I think I would call myself a "fanboy" of just about all of the teachers and enjoy sorting thru the various viewpoints. Eventually I settle on what works best for me, but it is beneficial to know of alternate ways to complete a task.