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Thread: Installing 220v breaker

  1. #1

    Installing 220v breaker

    Hello,
    I am putting in a new 220v outlet in my workshop and need some advice. Below is a photo of the breaker panel. From my knowledge the top row is on one line of 120v and the bottom row is on another line of 120v. So - I would need a double pole breaker that is vertical and connects a slot on the top and bottom row? I have not seen that type of double pole breaker so I was wondering if my though process is right. Also - the breaker on the top right in the photo, would that be for a 220v outlet since it uses two slots, or would it need to be connected the the bottom row for increased voltage?

    Thanks for the help!
    unitB_0001.jpg

  2. #2
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    I recommend you fond an electrician. There may be this to consider that the picture doesn't show.
    Measure twice, cut three times, start over. Repeat as necessary.

  3. #3
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    I can't even imagine any breaker box being built for 240v single phase where every other breaker position was not connected to the other phase. A 120v circuit would require a single breaker and a 240v circuit would require a double wide breaker. IF you say the breaker occupying positions 6 & 8 is a double breaker, then it would feed a 240v circuit. I can't see that in the picture and it really looks like all of it belongs in the trash. There is no way that any breaker box manufacturer would design a box that required a breaker to fit both sides for 240v. NO WAY.

  4. #4
    I'm sure if you looked at the bus you would see to get 240v you need a breaker like the one top left in your photo. Do not mess with the panel to try to get "increased voltage". You will get 240v by just removing two adjacent single pole breakers and installing a two pole breaker or using the existing two pole breaker.
    “Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness..." - Mark Twain

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Greg R Bradley View Post
    There is no way that any breaker box manufacturer would design a box that required a breaker to fit both sides for 240v. NO WAY.
    Actually Greg, I have seen that before but I can't remember the manufacturer. It was a long time ago.
    “Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness..." - Mark Twain

  6. #6
    Thanks for the help - yes I guess I was reading things wrong. It does make sense that top left would be 240 occupying 2 slots (and it's a 60 amp breaker), so now it's just a matter of replacing that double pole breaker with a lower amperage for my machine.
    I appreciate it!

  7. #7
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    Are these breakers all spares ie. nothing hooked to them? If that is the case you can change out the 60 amp breaker for one of a less current rating or replace any two adjacent 120 volt breakers with a 2 pole 240 volt breaker, but if that (those) breakers are in use for something else you can't do that. From your picture, there is already a breaker in every position that panel allows. For another breaker position you are going to need a larger panel, or another sub panel. We need to know much more to be able to answer your questions. At this point it will likely be better if you contact an electrician.

    Charley

  8. #8
    Future reference, split 120V breakers are available like this. Two in the bottom row would free up space for a double pole breaker.

    You would have to check and see what type breaker fits the bus. There are several ways they clip in so you have to make sure you've got the right ones.

    If you've never done this before, I would call an electrician.

  9. #9
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    that looks like it could be a "stab-lok" panel, if it is, you should call an electrician and get it replaced with a modern and safe panel. stablok panels have caused a lot of fires. specifically, the 240 breakers will jam if you overload one leg and then they will never trip.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Herman View Post
    that looks like it could be a "stab-lok" panel, if it is, you should call an electrician and get it replaced with a modern and safe panel. stablok panels have caused a lot of fires. specifically, the 240 breakers will jam if you overload one leg and then they will never trip.

    Not a FPE Stab-Lok panel, it is a SQ D QO, but is of a style no longer allowed by the NEC, because if a breaker is mounted in a vertical position, "ON" must be up, it's OK up north in Canukistan but not where the NEC is adopted.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Engel View Post
    Future reference, split 120V breakers are available like this. Two in the bottom row would free up space for a double pole breaker.

    You would have to check and see what type breaker fits the bus. There are several ways they clip in so you have to make sure you've got the right ones.

    If you've never done this before, I would call an electrician.

    Twin breakers must be listed to be used in a particular panel & then it's only in certain positions in some cases, the OP's panel may be a pre 1968 panel, made before UL "CTL" standards came out, there are non-CTL breakers made, but will be more expensive & harder to get.
    Last edited by Rollie Meyers; 07-02-2016 at 9:58 PM.

  11. #11
    I'm with Rollie on this one. Another thing to think about.......your panel, at least from what I see, is not built for 200 amp service. You plug in a 60 amp double breaker in your panel and the possibility is that you will overload the entire circuit. Give this one to an electrician and have him bring in a modern panel with 200 amp capabilities.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Evan Lentz View Post
    so now it's just a matter of replacing that double pole breaker with a lower amperage for my machine.
    The breaker should be sized appropriately for the wire and the receptacle, NOT the load.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Friedrichs View Post
    The breaker should be sized appropriately for the wire and the receptacle, NOT the load.
    But it's okay to put in a SMALLER breaker than the rating of the wire.
    Jason

    "Don't get stuck on stupid." --Lt. Gen. Russel Honore


  14. #14
    You should follow the equipment manufacturer's breaker recommendation but make sure the wire from panel to load is properly sized for the breaker size the manufacturer recommends.
    “Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness..." - Mark Twain

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