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Thread: Problem Hard to explain

  1. #1

    Problem Hard to explain

    Sometimes when I do a second pass things don't line up . I think the problems in the x axis because it seems to happen more when the laser head runs all the way across the material to complete a circle or something. But its not consistent and the amount its off varies. My belts seem to be tight enough . Sometimes when the x axis makes an abrupt change to one side or the other I hear a thump sound but I only hear that when it makes a quick change from left to right or vice versa. If I draw circle on the left side and one on the far right it just makes a smooth run across the board but its when it jumps back and forth I hear this thump I know I'm not explaining this right but if you have any ideas
    Thanks
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  2. #2
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    Sounds like it doesn't have enough room out at the edges to ramp the speed up/down. E.g. my ULS needs over an inch on either side when running at 100% speed. Are the acceleration curves tunable on your machine like they are on a CNC router?

    (Or I don't understand the question...an example of something that works vs something that doesn't would help.)
    Yoga class makes me feel like a total stud, mostly because I'm about as flexible as a 2x4.
    "Design"? Possibly. "Intelligent"? Sure doesn't look like it from this angle.
    We used to be hunter gatherers. Now we're shopper borrowers.
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  3. #3
    Lee I'm not using the whole length of x Im using maybe half of the 24 inchs I even went from 70mmps to 40mmps and it still did it. it even does it on a 1 pass item if it jumps around see picture Notice LEROY is OK but the x went across table to fill in the O's w and other letters it needed to finish offset O's.jpgalso notice 2 of the leaves are offset too
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  4. #4
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    If the X-axis drive doesn't have any lash, I'd still suspect a controller problem, like it's trying to reverse direction too fast and loses track of where it is. Or maybe speeding up too much in the unengraved areas.
    Is this machine stepper-motor based or servo?
    Yoga class makes me feel like a total stud, mostly because I'm about as flexible as a 2x4.
    "Design"? Possibly. "Intelligent"? Sure doesn't look like it from this angle.
    We used to be hunter gatherers. Now we're shopper borrowers.
    The three most important words in the English language: "Front Towards Enemy".
    The world makes a lot more sense when you remember that Butthead was the smart one.
    You can never be too rich, too thin, or have too much ammo.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Lee DeRaud View Post
    If the X-axis drive doesn't have any lash, I'd still suspect a controller problem, like it's trying to reverse direction too fast and loses track of where it is. Or maybe speeding up too much in the unengraved areas.
    Is this machine stepper-motor based or servo?
    I'm not sure its a Rabbit 6040

    • Driving system: micro divided stepper
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  6. #6
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    I would vote for either a belt or bearing issue. If you have already checked the connections on the stepper driver, and controller first that is...
    Retired Guy- Central Iowa.HVAC/R , Cloudray Galvo Fiber , -Windows 10

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bert Kemp View Post
    I'm not sure its a Rabbit 6040

    • Driving system: micro divided stepper
    Ok, that means it can lose steps if it bangs into the stops on either end. You say you're not using the entire width of the bed, but do the symptoms change if the piece is placed left-edge, center, or right-edge?
    Yoga class makes me feel like a total stud, mostly because I'm about as flexible as a 2x4.
    "Design"? Possibly. "Intelligent"? Sure doesn't look like it from this angle.
    We used to be hunter gatherers. Now we're shopper borrowers.
    The three most important words in the English language: "Front Towards Enemy".
    The world makes a lot more sense when you remember that Butthead was the smart one.
    You can never be too rich, too thin, or have too much ammo.

  8. #8
    Not sure I'll do some testing tomorrow
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  9. #9
    My thoughts- you have the same problem I just fixed...twice. First was my NH 3200 cylinder engraver (spindle stepper) and the Triumph (X stepper).

    That "thump" you hear is indicative of a stepper motor not knowing what to do. Not knowing what to do can be caused by a variety of things. The controller is one, but I've been finding that if the controller (or data flow) is an issue, usually what will happen is either the machine will suddenly run in one direction towards infinity, or-- the machine will do absolutely nothing at all.

    Yours isn't doing that. Now, I did run into a stepper-skip issue that's similar that WAS due to the controller, or rather, a bug in the controller or software. What happened was, I was rastering several small patterns (about 3/8" square) across a 24" wide SS panel, spaced at roughly 4" intervals. Rather than raster a ton of dead space, I made each one a different color. After they were finished, the head was to move back to the left to start rastering a series of 3" long x about .060" thick lines. These too were a different color, but the change to the lines included a higher speed setting. What happened, and I have this on video, is the speed changed in the middle of the dead space move between the last pattern and the first line. It changed on the display too, and when the speed changed, the head movement halted ever so briefly, then resumed at the higher speed. But where it started the line engraving was the wrong place. I found that it would do it every single time I tested it, and would repeat the 'miss' in the exact same place every time. And fwiw, there was no thump. I shot vid to see if Triumph could/would do something about it, but I never pursued it. I've concluded it's a controller or software bug. My fix has been to not mix different colors and speeds in one operation.

    But yours is "not consistent", so it's a highly unlikely you're having the same issue--

    Back to what may be the problem, a loose or broken stepper motor wire or connector...

    My cylinder engraver was giving me fits not long ago, the Z stepper would just run willy-nilly at times rather than move up then down. Willy-nilly is not good because it would go down more than up, and eventually the tool wouldn't raise above what I was engraving- which turned several parts into scrap -- The problem turned out to be one of the connector spades in the stepper-side plug was pushed almost out of the plug housing. Since I pushed it back, no issues..

    And the Triumph problem turned out to be this:
    DSC04998.jpg

    This the connection point of the X stepper wires- Since the wires that come with the stepper aren't long enough, Triumph (and possibly every other Chinese laser builder) simply added enough wire to reach the X-Y controller boxes. These wires are in the drag chain, and this connection starts rolling up in the chain when the head Y-travel is about 3/5 the way down. That joint simply didn't last thru all the bend/straighten/bend routines. I put 2 and 2 together about my problem when I noticed it was happening worst about 17" down. Upon doing a little playing with the drag chain, I found I could make the machine mess up at will...

    Triumph didn't think it was the stepper, but I bought one anyway, and they were right! But they were thankful that I'd found the problem because another customer of theirs was having the same issues and at the time they hadn't found an answer. The pic below is my fix;

    DSC05001.jpg

    I just re-soldered the joint. All it cost was a couple bucks for heatshrink tube! I also re-bent the wiring a bit to hopefully track within the chain better.

    It was real simple, the chain (mine anyway) pieces on top just snap in, you can pull them all out of the way with some needlenose pliers within a minute or two, and just pull the wires out. Have a look, if you have soldered up connections like mine in the chain, or somewhere else where they're moving or rubbing, etc., I'll just about bet one of them is broken...
    Last edited by Kev Williams; 07-02-2016 at 9:36 PM.
    ========================================
    ELEVEN - rotary cutter tool machines
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    THREE- make that FOUR now - fiber lasers
    ONE - vinyl cutter
    CASmate, Corel, Gravostyle


  10. #10
    Wow Kev I guess with some many machines and older ones at that you have probably run into just about every problem any of us can have and mostly likely found a fix for them too. OK so Tomorrow I will check all the wires and connections to the steppers.

    Bill I don't think its a belt but the bearing maybe.

    Lee I'l still run more tests after I check wires .

    thanks guys
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  11. #11
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    All I know like I said before, on my Chinese machine it was loose connectons. On the ULS the wiring is so well done I don't think connections will ever be an issue. Your belt could have a couple of teeth missing, or it could be a bearing. I have been known to get up in the middle of the night to go check something I just thought of
    Retired Guy- Central Iowa.HVAC/R , Cloudray Galvo Fiber , -Windows 10

  12. #12
    I'll check the teeth on the belts also

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill George View Post
    All I know like I said before, on my Chinese machine it was loose connectons. On the ULS the wiring is so well done I don't think connections will ever be an issue. Your belt could have a couple of teeth missing, or it could be a bearing. I have been known to get up in the middle of the night to go check something I just thought of
    If the Help and advice you received here was of any VALUE to you PLEASE! Become a Contributor
    Rabbit RL_XX_6040-60 watt Laser engraving/cutting machine Oh wait its a 3D Printer my bad LOL
    Lasercut 5.3
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    10" Table Saw
    8" bench mount 5 speed Drill Press
    Dremel, 3x21 Belt Sander


  13. #13
    You might give Ray a call and explain you have a stepper 'thumping' and it's losing its place after it does. He should also know if the stepper motors wires have been added to. Not a dig to the Chinese, these guys install the steppers they get from their suppliers with whatever wiring is included, and it's much easier to add wires than to remanufacture a new plug with long enough wires. Keeps the cost down, which is fine with me (my new stepper came with the exact same wiring harness that's in my machine)

    As for checking the belts, the easiest way is to just move the head and gantry left/right and up/down while it's powered down. If there's any guck or broken teeth, you'll feel it.

    I've noted in other posts that the X belt on my LS900 is sadly worn in the first 2-3" from the left home position, and when when pushing the head back & forth with my hands, the slack in that spot is very noticeable, the rest of the travel is smooth...
    ========================================
    ELEVEN - rotary cutter tool machines
    FOUR - CO2 lasers
    THREE- make that FOUR now - fiber lasers
    ONE - vinyl cutter
    CASmate, Corel, Gravostyle


  14. #14
    If I don't find the problem by Tuesday I'll give him a call


    Quote Originally Posted by Kev Williams View Post
    You might give Ray a call and explain you have a stepper 'thumping' and it's losing its place after it does. He should also know if the stepper motors wires have been added to. Not a dig to the Chinese, these guys install the steppers they get from their suppliers with whatever wiring is included, and it's much easier to add wires than to remanufacture a new plug with long enough wires. Keeps the cost down, which is fine with me (my new stepper came with the exact same wiring harness that's in my machine)

    As for checking the belts, the easiest way is to just move the head and gantry left/right and up/down while it's powered down. If there's any guck or broken teeth, you'll feel it.

    I've noted in other posts that the X belt on my LS900 is sadly worn in the first 2-3" from the left home position, and when when pushing the head back & forth with my hands, the slack in that spot is very noticeable, the rest of the travel is smooth...
    If the Help and advice you received here was of any VALUE to you PLEASE! Become a Contributor
    Rabbit RL_XX_6040-60 watt Laser engraving/cutting machine Oh wait its a 3D Printer my bad LOL
    Lasercut 5.3
    CorelDraw X5

    10" Miter Saw with slide
    10" Table Saw
    8" bench mount 5 speed Drill Press
    Dremel, 3x21 Belt Sander


  15. #15
    OK I've check wires and belts didn't find anything that I could see.
    BUT with the power off if I run the x axis back and for kinda quick I get a thumping sound and it feels like I hit a bump in the road. and it doesn't do it in the same spot all the time. also if I move it slow it doesn't do it. So when I'm cutting and it finishes a cut on one side and moves real fast to the other side is when this happens.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSA98vSo0Os
    If the Help and advice you received here was of any VALUE to you PLEASE! Become a Contributor
    Rabbit RL_XX_6040-60 watt Laser engraving/cutting machine Oh wait its a 3D Printer my bad LOL
    Lasercut 5.3
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    10" Table Saw
    8" bench mount 5 speed Drill Press
    Dremel, 3x21 Belt Sander


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