Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 27

Thread: Jointing wide edges

  1. #1

    Jointing wide edges

    I've started on a workbench and I've decided to use ~3" thick pine boards for the top. The boards have been thicknessed but I don't have access to a jointer so I'm at a bit of a loss as to how to joint the edges. I've got an ECE wooden jointing plane and a #5 with a cambered blade but I feel like I'm going in circles trying to get things square and flat. I'm aware that match planing will eliminate the squareness variable but I still need to get a relatively wide surface flattened and untwisted. What tips have you fellas got for getting jointing wide edges without a machine?

    I'm not going to use clamps for gluing the top together because I realized I'd need to spend hundreds of dollars on long clamps that I won't use very again. Instead I've bought a box of these massive 8" screws and two auger bits. I plan to glue and screw the boards together one at a time. With a ratchet or rattle gun I should be able to get enough clamping force. After that I will flatten the top one way or another. Any reason why I shouldn't use the screws (other than the fact that it's untraditional)?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    SE Michigan
    Posts
    3,222
    Trevor, just so we understand, the 3" will be the thickness of the bench top...what is the width of these boards? In other words are they 3x2...3x4...3x12 slabs?

  3. #3
    They are ~6 inches wide. Just some boards my dad milled years ago, not to any exact size. They are 5ft long - only a small bench but I want it heavy.

  4. #4
    If you use holdfasts you may need to be careful of your hole placement so that you don't drill a dog hole through where you drilled for the screws. It might mess with how well the holdfast grips. I have not done this since I made a bunch of long wedge clamps, but that is where my mind went first.

    I've seen this method used before though. One thing you can do is build up the top long and plane in a slight convexity to the faces of the boards being glued. That way the screws only need to be used on the ends because the convex faces will apply force in the middle (look up "spring joint"), and you can cut the extra length off once you're done so there will be no through holes remaining.

    I would suggest gluing in stages (only a couple of boards at a time) for a couple of reasons:

    1. It will be a great deal easier to make sure the boards are centered up and won't slide all cock-eyed when you apply pressure. Before it sets up, wood glue is slippery stuff. On my bench, this caused a whole lot of problem fixed only by a whole lot of planing and resulted in a thinner top than I had hoped for.

    2. You can roughly flatten each board as it is cured in place. This will save tons of energy later on when it comes time to do the final flatten when the bench is fully assembled. It is a lot easier to spend 5 minutes every board or two to rough them in than it is to throw around a jack or #8 for a couple of hours in a single marathon session. See #1 for how I know...

  5. #5
    Thanks Glen. If dog holes and holdfast points are the only concern then I can easily deal with that. Just plan ahead with the screw positioning and mark underneath where the screws are for future reference. I like the convexity suggestion, maybe I don't need the boards to be dead flat after all...

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Princeton, NJ
    Posts
    7,254
    Blog Entries
    7
    Are you joining these edge to edge? If that is the case then one edge I would joint as an independent surface, checking squareness to the face only at one point. Use winding sticks to determine if you are creating an surface free of wind. Then joint the adjoining surface, checking it against that original surface.
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    SE Michigan
    Posts
    3,222
    i would probably clamp two adjoining pieces face to face and create a slight concave surface with stop cuts (credit to David Charlesworth). Essentially start the #5 an inch in from the end and plane to an inch short of the opposite end. Also start slightly in from each edge. Plane across the two boards until the plane stops cutting...you have essentially created a concave surface with slightly proud edges. (David's how to method download is worth every penny IMO)

    When gluing together, screw the center first and work out to the ends. There's no reason you can't remove the screws once the glue dries. As Glen suggests, I'd do the first two, then one at a time, and enemies up the surface as you go.

  8. #8
    A couple thoughts:

    1) I would be wary about creating much of a "spring" joint as some have suggested. They are fine in certain situations, but it takes a lot of force to close a gap when you are dealing with 3" x 6" pieces, more force than you may be apply without clamps. I would do as Brian suggested: use winding sticks to ensure that your edge doesn't twist, and focus on getting a straight, gap free edge. Remember that it only has to look good on one side!

    2) I don't really get the thing about "hundreds of dollars on long clamps that I won't use again." If you are planning on making much furniture or cabinetry on your bench, you will need clamps. Depending on the width of your bench, four 24" or 30" should suffice, and you can get them for under $100 if you're not buying top shelf. If you are planning on a bench wider than 30", you should seriously reconsider. Really, 24" is plenty wide. My traveling bench, which is beefy enough to use permanently, is 19" x 70".

    3) However, if you really don't want to buy clamps, there are two time-honored solutions. The first is to use threaded rod. Drill matching through-holes through all your pieces and pull everything together with nuts and fender washers. The second solution comes from the 18th century via Roubo. Here's a nice modern take on it from Derek Jones, the editor of F & C:

    https://www.instagram.com/p/BHO-zYmh...by=lowfatroubo

    and here's another shot, with thorough explanation:

    https://www.instagram.com/p/BHSJjlDh...by=lowfatroubo

    Good luck with your build.
    Last edited by Steve Voigt; 07-04-2016 at 11:35 AM.
    "For me, chairs and chairmaking are a means to an end. My real goal is to spend my days in a quiet, dustless shop doing hand work on an object that is beautiful, useful and fun to make." --Peter Galbert

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    SE Michigan
    Posts
    3,222
    I agree with Steve on the spring joint if too severe. Planning with a stop cut and final through cut should only produce a gap of 1 to 1.5 thousands. And you do want to eliminate as much twist as possible.

    However you choose to go, good luck with the build!

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Perth, Australia
    Posts
    9,467
    Quote Originally Posted by Trevor Goodwin View Post
    I've started on a workbench and I've decided to use ~3" thick pine boards for the top. The boards have been thicknessed but I don't have access to a jointer so I'm at a bit of a loss as to how to joint the edges. I've got an ECE wooden jointing plane and a #5 with a cambered blade but I feel like I'm going in circles trying to get things square and flat. I'm aware that match planing will eliminate the squareness variable but I still need to get a relatively wide surface flattened and untwisted. What tips have you fellas got for getting jointing wide edges without a machine?

    I'm not going to use clamps for gluing the top together because I realized I'd need to spend hundreds of dollars on long clamps that I won't use very again. Instead I've bought a box of these massive 8" screws and two auger bits. I plan to glue and screw the boards together one at a time. With a ratchet or rattle gun I should be able to get enough clamping force. After that I will flatten the top one way or another. Any reason why I shouldn't use the screws (other than the fact that it's untraditional)?
    Hi Trevor

    I would not use screws, even if you can remove them. They will leave deep and wide holes, and anyway are no assurance that the boards will be joined square. The suggestions that Steve has made are excellent. Either invest in a few clamps or make your own. You will need them in the future.

    I also want to check something: it is not clear whether you will be joining the boards on their faces or edges. I suspect that we are assuming that you plan to join them on their edges (that is, a bench to that will end up 3" thick), but this may not be so.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Ste-Julienne, Qc, Canada
    Posts
    194
    My traveling bench, which is beefy enough to use permanently, is 19" x 70"
    Hi Steve,
    Would it be possible to get a picture of your traveling bench. I may need one very soon.

    Thanks,
    Normand

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Normand Leblanc View Post
    Hi Steve,
    Would it be possible to get a picture of your traveling bench. I may need one very soon.

    Thanks,
    Normand

    Sure, here you go.

    IMG_1930.JPG

    IMG_1933.JPG

    Sorry about the gratuitous plane porn; these are the only pics I have. You can also see the bench in the video Pop Wood did. Some info, in case it's helpful:

    - I designed the bench to be the biggest that could fit in my car. It's a split top, and the two top pieces (stacked on top of each other) fit in the front seat (with the seat all the way down). I lash them together with the center insert. The rest fits in the trunk.

    - It's a pretty standard split top design. Unlike a more traditional Roubo, the leg assemblies have both top and bottom stretchers. Each leg has a tenon about 1 1/2" long, IIRC. The tops fit securely on the tenons, and then each top gets a lag bolt at each end, through those top stretchers. The tenons take the weight; the lag bolts just keep the tops on in case someone decides to sit on one end.

    - I use the Benchcrafted hardware (about $40) to bolt the long stretchers to the two leg assemblies. The hardware is totally worth it. I can put the bench together or break it down in 5 minutes.

    - It doesn't have much workholding at the moment because all I've needed is a stop for face planing. But I'll be adding more, and you can obviously customize it however you want.

    I should mention that there are lots of other good designs out there. Caleb James has a great design for a knockdown Nicholson; you can find plans and a couple writups with Chris Schwarz. It works great for him, primarily being used for molding planes, spokeshaves, and the like, but because I'm doing a lot of heavy planing I wanted something more massive. So, design the bench around your vehicle and your working needs, is my advice.

    (Sorry about the OT diversion everyone. )
    Last edited by Steve Voigt; 07-04-2016 at 4:16 PM.
    "For me, chairs and chairmaking are a means to an end. My real goal is to spend my days in a quiet, dustless shop doing hand work on an object that is beautiful, useful and fun to make." --Peter Galbert

  13. #13
    Thanks guys. All useful suggestions. The workbench I use at the moment is in the garage of a place I'm renting. It's bolted against a wall on three sides and has a massive well in the middle that only leaves ~8" of working surface at the front. I hate using this bench so much.

    I should mention that I'll mainly be using my new bench for carving and small-scale joinery (boxes etc.) hence my reluctance to invest in long clamps. Joining five 4ft, 3" thick boards will require more than just a couple of clamps because there is a massive total surface area.

    Regardless of how I decide to clamp, my first problem is planing the edges. Will I benefit from camber on the blade in my jointing plane?

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Perth, Australia
    Posts
    9,467
    Hi Trevor

    I'm going to suggest that you use a fence with your jointer to ensure square edges - assuming that the face are already jointed, as I recall you mentioning. Note that this will use a straight blade.

    You can build this quite simply and quickly. Just remember to set the fence in and against the plane blade. The version below was made to control a very large and heavy cooper's jointer ...








    EDIT: (sound of smacking my own head) ... the edges are 3" wide! You could use my plane (3" wide blade!!) but your ECE will be a little over 2" only. Sorry for the lame suggestion.


    Regards from Perth

    Derek
    Last edited by Derek Cohen; 07-05-2016 at 8:13 AM.

  15. #15
    Thanks Derek. I have considered making a fence for my woodie but it will be tricky. One problem is that it needs to be a sliding fence so I can cover the whole edge in multiple passes. The other problem is that the sides on my ECE plane have a slight taper, they are not perfectly square to the sole.

    Mind you I have no qualms with drilling into my plane and inserting threads - anything that makes it more useful to me, it's not like it's a collectible. It is the ECE 101SB and I bought it because it was the cheapest good quality jointer plane I could find and didn't want to have to deal with a possibly banana shaped 2nd one Stanley/Record.
    Last edited by Trevor Goodwin; 07-04-2016 at 10:10 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •