Prashun:
Yes, I know you are truly interested, and that is good enough.
Give me some time to think and write. I will need to buy some more bon bons too!
Stan
Guest
Prashun:
Yes, I know you are truly interested, and that is good enough.
Give me some time to think and write. I will need to buy some more bon bons too!
Stan
Contributor
Prashun, you've already seen this, but I'll post it up here for everyone reading.
This is my solution, which turns the back half of my bench into something similar to a planing beam. This will be a multi-purpose stop, which will work for planing large material, planing flush with a nagadai kanna and for Kumiko work, which I intend to make a plane and track for.
Bumbling forward into the unknown.
Brian, is that stop a permanent part of the bench or do the two dowels fit in dog holes? I only see one dog hole further up. I have been using the similar LV aluminum stops, with adjustable holding pins. The taller stop may work better in some situations?
Prashun, Amazon offers new and used copies of Toshio Odate's book "Japanese Woodworking Tools: Their Tradition, Spirit and Use". They even have a DVD by Odate that I am thinking about buying, unless Stanley has another suggestion. Odate's book may be a little dated but sometimes traditional methods have stood the test of time and deserve a read.
Stanley, there are always those who think they have everything all figured out. Then there are those of us who think there is ALWAYS: a better way, ways to improve, more efficient methods, more ways to tweak tools\benches\work space....Sometimes these tweaks even speed work up.
I like the idea of working on the floor, it is very hard to fall off of. Lately, I sometimes have difficulty getting back up once I get there though.
Last edited by Mike Holbrook; 07-07-2016 at 11:39 AM.
Member
I use nokogiri exclusively. Just can't get along with western saws.
Probably 90% of the time, I don't use ANYTHING to hold them, except my left hand. Otherwise, a simple stop similar to what Brian shows, above.
One of the "secrets" of using a japanese saw is to not push down as you saw. The way the teeth are cut, it pulls the saw into the work all by itself. "Light and fast" is the key, concentrating instead on your orientation to the piece. (Having your forearm level to the ground is also helpful)
Last edited by Allan Speers; 07-07-2016 at 12:52 PM.
Contributor
Exactly Allan. I use Western saws more than Japanese saws now, but I have used Japanese for longer, and I continue to use them for fine, delicate work where their small, multiple teeth work best.One of the "secrets" of using a japanese saw is to not push down as you saw.
The point I could have made earlier is that pulling a saw requires less holding power than when pushing a saw. I can easily hold a board or work piece in one hand and saw it with the other. No clamping (other than a hand or foot) is needed. The secret to all sawing is to remove any extra weight from the saw and let it do its work under its own weight. Light strokes are easily done with a dozuki. I have had the same Z-saw for several years now, and it has not lost any teeth.
The design that Brian shows is essentially the same as the bench hook I posted. The fence lies in the middle of the bench hook, and the workpiece is pulled against it by the saw. You can also use a dog to do the same thing.
Regards from Perth
Derek
[OP]
Moderator
I have been practicing with my Ryoba.
When I make a vertical cut (working my way down the front face of a piece - imagine a 2x4 with the 4" side vertical, chucked in a vise) I get very good results. Fairly square.
When I make a horizontal cut (working my way across the top face of a piece front-to-back - imagine 2x4 with the 2" side vertical, chucked in a vise) the saw wanders to the right towards the end.
In both cases, I am chucked in the vise, and am using 2 hands on the Ryoba. Is the wander from pushing into the cut and causing the blade to flex, or is it more typically from elbow "run out". I'm using 2 hands to pull the saw into the center of my body, so I don't see how runout is possible.
Last edited by Prashun Patel; 07-08-2016 at 10:31 AM.
Contributor
Prashun, I'm a little lost in the descriptions, are you rip cutting or cross cutting?
If this is a rip cut I think primarily that a 4" thick piece is too much for your saw, so it's going to deflect since the gullets are filled.
Are you wedging the cut as you go?
Bumbling forward into the unknown.
[OP]
Moderator
Not ripping, Brian. It's cross-cutting.
In the first case, I'm cross cutting with the 2" side on the bench, and the 4" side up. In this case, because of the height, I can work along the backside a little to establish a kerf, and the front side - just as you taught me for a re-saw type cut (except it's cross grain; it's just a tall cross cut.).
In the second case, I'm x-cutting with the 4" side on the bench and the 2" side up. In this case, there is no clearance on the back side to start the cut. So, I start on the front corner with the handle down. The saw decends the 2" front-facing face quickly, and then I am moving across the remainder of the top fact. This is when I experience wander. To the right. Consistently.
I should post a picture
Contributor
Ahh, I see, is it possible to hang the piece over the bench? Cut triangles from corner to corner.
This guy shows good crosscutting technique.
I crosscut one handed most of the two (two hands mostly for rip). Not a firm every time sort of thing in either case.
Bumbling forward into the unknown.
[OP]
Moderator
Brian-
What search term did you use to find that? vids are worth amillion words. For the life of me I can't search it properly. "japanese saw technique" yields links to tool sellers. Seaching for "nokogiri" yields links to web programming.
Contributor
I used 'Japanese timber frame' then started clicking through a couple videos to get to some good ones.
Bumbling forward into the unknown.
Member
For deep and long cuts. I use vertical cuts. Check on the japanese bench saw. The blade is pointed to the ground. It helps stablize the cut.
Member
for what it is worth, I second Prashuns interest. I am a western saw user through and through, but am keenly interested interested in Japanese saw use, especially for small trim work.Originally Posted by Stanley Covington
Paul
Member
Prashun:
FWW had a good article on Japanese saws and workholding last summer, by Andrew Hunter. I found it helpful. For rips, he uses a pair of short horses, and holds the piece stable with his foot. For crosscuts, he uses his bench with a couple of dogs, similar to what Brian does with his stop and other do with a bench hook. For dovetails he sits on a short stool with the work on the bench at eye level and pulls down.
I agree with the other posters that say that a light touch is the way to go. Every time I fight it, the saw wanders.
John
Contributor
You should still cut from back to front for your second example. Why do you feel compelled to make a change in your method just because of the board being horizontal vs vertical.?
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