Bathroom Framing questions

[Dan Mages]

I am in the early stages of a bathroom gut and remodel. As I suspected, the toilet must have leaked many years ago, but was never fully repaired by a previous owner. By the time I pulled out the 1.5-2" thick concrete pad that was under the tile, I found the plywood subfloor completely delaminated. The joists are solid 12" full dimension beams and are sound, except for some pock marks along the top from the past water damage and some insects as well. Is there an epoxy or wood filler product I can use to fill in the damaged areas on the top of the joists and provide a solid surface for the new subfloor?

My other surprise was the wet wall behind the double vanity. instead of using 2x6 studs, they used two studs back to back. This is probably a load bearing wall. I might take advantage of this and install a couple of medicine cabinets above the sinks. If I box in an opening for the cabinets, will I need to worry about jack studs and cripple studs, or will the back set of studs be enough to support the wall?

Dan

[Jim Becker]

Dan, on the floor joists, it would likely be easy to sister in some new lumber to provide a flat and stable surface to nail your new subfloor to. They don't have to go full depth if the "damage" to the existing joists is just the top surface. 2x6 would work fine and would give you more than enough surface to fasten them to the sides of the existing joists. Do make sure that you're "bug free" before closing things up...

[Dan Mages]

Dan, on the floor joists, it would likely be easy to sister in some new lumber to provide a flat and stable surface to nail your new subfloor to. They don't have to go full depth if the "damage" to the existing joists is just the top surface. 2x6 would work fine and would give you more than enough surface to fasten them to the sides of the existing joists. Do make sure that you're "bug free" before closing things up...

Thanks, Jim.

The damage is maybe 1/2" deep at best. I can use longer screws (2.5") and be fine with attaching the plywood. I'm also going to add a very liberal amount of liquid nails. Just wondering if there was a product or there that would fill in the voids for a better finished product.

Dan

[Rich Engelhardt]

The damage is maybe 1/2" deep at best. I can use longer screws (2.5") and be fine with attaching the plywood. I'm also going to add a very liberal amount of liquid nails. Just wondering if there was a product or there that would fill in the voids for a better finished product.

Water putty would work, but, in all honesty, +1 to sistering a 2x6. In the end, a 2x6 will probably be faster, better and cheaper.

[Jim Becker]

Even if you drive longer screws into the existing joists, having the sisters...even two by fours...allows you to establish "level" for your new subfloor. When you have a floor open like that in old construction, it's an opportunity to "tune things up"!!

[Todd Mason-Darnell]

Water putty would work, but, in all honesty, +1 to sistering a 2x6. In the end, a 2x6 will probably be faster, better and cheaper.

+2 on sistering 2 x 6s. You could use bondo to fill the holes, but it will be easier and quicker to sister a couple of new joists in to get a level surface.

For the built in cabinets, what do you mean by the 2 x 4 are "back to back"? Do you mean that they lined to so you get a double depth stud, e.g. 1.5 x 7? If that is so, it is unlikely it was done for structural reasons. Since you said that this is the wet wall, it most likely done to give enough depth to protect the pipes from screws and nails. All that being said, it is very difficult to judge without seeing the entire structure.

[Robert Engel]

Dan, on the floor joists, it would likely be easy to sister in some new lumber to provide a flat and stable surface to nail your new subfloor to. They don't have to go full depth if the "damage" to the existing joists is just the top surface. 2x6 would work fine and would give you more than enough surface to fasten them to the sides of the existing joists. Do make sure that you're "bug free" before closing things up...

Excellent advice.

On the cabinets, I would think standard framing technique for a window lintel should suffice (double 2x8 + king posts).

[Tom M King]

If you're not going to cut a stud for the medicine cabinets, there's no need for anything but nailers above and below.

[Erik Loza]

Even if you drive longer screws into the existing joists, having the sisters...even two by fours...allows you to establish "level" for your new subfloor. When you have a floor open like that in old construction, it's an opportunity to "tune things up"!!

This is precisely how they did our downstairs bathroom during the remodel. Subfloor was all rotten as well as portions of a few existing joists. They just siamesed in additional ones. It's rock-solid now. We also specified 1.25" plywood for the subfloor. That made a huge difference as well.

Erik

[Neil Gaskin]

Abatron wood epox is what you should use if you deside to fill the rot. It is structural a structural Epoxy filler. Likely available at a paint store but not a big box store.

With that said provided the damage is not great and very localized sistering short lenghts is likely more practical.

Without knowing what's above bathroom and more information on the double wall nobody can really tell you if the back studs are enough. In all reality a small header is not a big deal or hard if you're going to span more then a stud bay or two.

Is the vanity wall shared with the bathtub at the end? There is a chance that the whole wall was packed out to accomodate a standard Bath tub length if it is laid out that way.

do you have a picture or drawing of the bathroom?

[Dan Mages]

Thanks for the advice. I sistered most of the joists with 2x8s. A little overkill does not hurt anyone. Now most are double or triple joists. I also used Headlok lag screws and adhesive to tie them together. Those Headlok lag screws are impressive! They drove right into those joists with ease.

Here is a picture of the wet wall. As you can see, this is two studs back to back instead of one 2x6.

[Neil Gaskin]

Where is the bathtub in relation to that picture. What's above the room? There are a lot of reasons that wall could be thick.

[Dan Mages]

The tub is on the opposite wall. The garage is below and the attic is above. There is also no sill plate below the outer studs.

[Neil Gaskin]

Opposite wall as in parallel or adjacent/perpendicular ?

I'm going to start by saying that giving advice without seeing the situation first hand or at least having comprehensive house plans is dangerous.

If you look in the attic, are there any supports or braces going from the rafters to the wall in question? I'm guessing the house is stick framed rather than trusses for the roof given the age?

All that said, from what you have described, you can probably maybe safely remove a stud or two of the double wall. Nothing you have said sounds like there is a structural reason for the wall to be doubled up. I have not run into a situation that I can recall where an interior wall was doubled up for strength in a one story house. With an attic above would guess the single wall can hold it.

If you want to make the med cabinet deeper, you can likely also remove a stud or two from both walls and replace them with a header, but for that I would not take advice from the Internet.

[Chris Padilla]

Most support walls SHOULD have a double top-plate but not always. What's at the top of the wall?

I'm sure the reason for the double 2x4 instead of a 2x6 was convenience. They ran out of 2x6s or didn't have any or any other number of reasons that happen on job sites. You almost have a double wall there.