veneer and solid core drawer fronts?

[Mike King]

I'm in the process of making a Pennsylvania spice box inspired cabinet. I'd like to have highly figured walnut on the drawer fronts, so I bought some very nice walnut veneer. I was planning to laminate the veneer to solid walnut drawer fronts, but have become unsure about wood movement, etc. Is this a bad idea? I was planing to dovetail the drawers, but if I'm going to have to resort to ply, I might as well do something less time consuming...

Mike

[Pat Barry]

I'm in the process of making a Pennsylvania spice box inspired cabinet. I'd like to have highly figured walnut on the drawer fronts, so I bought some very nice walnut veneer. I was planning to laminate the veneer to solid walnut drawer fronts, but have become unsure about wood movement, etc. Is this a bad idea? I was planing to dovetail the drawers, but if I'm going to have to resort to ply, I might as well do something less time consuming...

Mike

It would be nice to know what the dimensions of the drawer fronts are Height, Width, Thickness. If they are small enough and thick enough you might get by without trouble, otherwise its typical to laminate some veneer to both sides and balance out the mismatch.

[Mike King]

I haven't finalized the drawer layout yet, but I might have one deep drawer of roughly 6 x 6 x ½, the others will be a max of 3 ⅛ x 5 ½ by ½.

Mike

[Warren Mickley]

Most problems with movement and cross grain gluing occur in much larger areas than the small drawers you are making. We often see bottoms just glued or nailed on to small drawers. In addition walnut is a rather forgiving wood, more likely to stretch or compress compared to other woods which crack.

I would use thicker drawer fronts and blind dovetails for the drawer sides. If you use through dovetails and then cover them up with the veneer you are creating a good place for the veneer to chip. The edges of a drawer are vulnerable enough already.

Back in the 20th century some guys got the idea that wood needs to be veneered on both sides and or finished the same on both sides. We see plenty of 200 or 300 year old work in good shape that did not follow these latter day rules. Veneer does crack, especially on large panels. It does chip, especially on edges. It does sometimes come loose. It just is not as robust as solid wood. However damage like this is not likely attributable to having a bare back side.

[Patrick Chase]

Back in the 20th century some guys got the idea that wood needs to be veneered on both sides and or finished the same on both sides. We see plenty of 200 or 300 year old work in good shape that did not follow these latter day rules. Veneer does crack, especially on large panels. It does chip, especially on edges. It does sometimes come loose. It just is not as robust as solid wood. However damage like this is not likely attributable to having a bare back side.

The concern I would generally have with a bare backside is warping due to different moisture uptake and/or thermal coefficient, as opposed to outright failure. There are other ways to deal with that besides veneering both sides, of course.

In any case the parts in this instance are so thick relative to their size (max L/T ratio of 12:1) that it can't possibly be an issue.

[Pat Barry]

So the difference in the growth and shrinkage of the veneer is not really going to be a factor in your design given the dimensions stated. I wouldn't feel compelled to veneer the inside, unless it was for aesthetic purposes - ie: you are using some substrate material that is not desirable. Dealing with the adhesion at the very edges of the material will be important so as not to be glue starved for example and cause delamination. This is a reason that cock beading is used for example. I do agree that you wouldn't want to laminate over the dovetails and you should use the half blind dovetail for this case. Do keep in mind that the shrinkage and expansion differences between the veneer and the substrate will be cross-grain. I would suggest to first ensure the substrate is flat and ready to go, then to laminate, and then let it acclimate - you may need to do a final planing of the interior surface if it does move a bit, even though the movement should be small in your case. You obviously wouldn't want to do much planing on the veneer. Alternatively you could complete the drawers, then apply the laminate. The drawer assembly structure will aid to resist warping.

[Mike King]

Thanks. It sounds like I should just use ¾ stock for the drawer fronts. I'd thought ½ would fit better given the diminutive nature of the drawers.

Now I'm wondering about protecting the veneer from chipping. It seems that cock beading would make the nest visually very busy and would detract from the visual continuity of the matched veneer. Any suggestions on other appropriate ways to protect it?

Mike

[Patrick Chase]

Thanks. It sounds like I should just use ¾ stock for the drawer fronts. I'd thought ½ would fit better given the diminutive nature of the drawers.

The number to look at is the ratio of the width (cross-grain axis) to the thickness. The numbers you gave are 6" and 1/2", so a 12:1 ratio. That's plenty low, so no need to go to thicker wood. All wood warps, it's just a matter of limiting or accommodating it so that it doesn't become structurally or aesthetically objectionable. At 12:1 the warp should be inherently limited to the point where no other measures are needed.

Put another way, I wouldn't compromise on the aesthetic quality of having the door front's thickness be in reasonable proportion to its size to avoid the miniscule warp you're likely to see here.

[Charles Guest]

Most problems with movement and cross grain gluing occur in much larger areas than the small drawers you are making. We often see bottoms just glued or nailed on to small drawers. In addition walnut is a rather forgiving wood, more likely to stretch or compress compared to other woods which crack.

I would use thicker drawer fronts and blind dovetails for the drawer sides. If you use through dovetails and then cover them up with the veneer you are creating a good place for the veneer to chip. The edges of a drawer are vulnerable enough already.

Back in the 20th century some guys got the idea that wood needs to be veneered on both sides and or finished the same on both sides. We see plenty of 200 or 300 year old work in good shape that did not follow these latter day rules. Veneer does crack, especially on large panels. It does chip, especially on edges. It does sometimes come loose. It just is not as robust as solid wood. However damage like this is not likely attributable to having a bare back side.

The French were counterveneering court furniture for Louis XV. They knew a little bit about veneer work I'd say. That said, these small drawers can likely do without it, but the technique shouldn't be given short-shrift, generally.