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Thread: Buying a portable generator

  1. #1
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    Buying a portable generator

    I am long overdue buying a portable generator for emergency use.
    I have put off buying because I don't know much about them.
    I have narrowed my choice down to two because..........

    1) Price. This is the price range I like for something that may get used once in 5 years.
    2) I have a friend with a Champion brand for years and it has been flawless.

    First unit.

    http://www.lowes.com/pd/Champion-Pow...f-594fd2b14895

    Second unit

    http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/pro...able-generator

    First off I notice the one from Lowes is only 120 volt. but two 120 outlet
    TSC generator is 120/ 240 but only one 120 volt outlet.

    Question- Notice they sell a cord to convert 240 to a four outlet 120. What is the advantage? why not get a cheap power strip and plug it into the 120 volt outlet.

    http://www.cabelas.com/product/auto-...Tz_stype%3DGNU

    I understand 240 volt may come in handy but wonder if I would go to the trouble hooking into the panel to run the furnace , stove etc... If I can just run a space heater ,microwave, refrigerator / freezer on 110 for a few hours in an emergency.

    What size generator do you have for an emergency and do you wish you got bigger or smaller?
    "Remember back in the day, when things were made by hand, and people took pride in their work?"
    - Rick Dale

  2. #2
    I have considered such, but never pulled the trigger. Couple of other things you might consider (or might already have?) are:
    1) Portability - Is it just for your home, or maybe also for camping, field work, etc?
    2) Fuel - You have to store both generator and any extra fuel.
    3) Expected load - Will your linked units carry the appliances you listed? (Total amps of breakers feeding them is a good place to start.)
    I don't know your location, but also consider frequency/duration of outages, what temperature extremes during an outage, and what do you have to lose? (favorite TV show? a chicken dinner in freezer? or a child on breathing assist equipment?). ...ROI gets pretty easy in some cases.

    I drool over the natural gas fueled units that sit outside, even if not full auto-start/cutover and I have to go throw the breakers and start it, it is never in the way, it will run virtually forever with no excursions to a station that also has no power.

  3. #3
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    I have a 5500 watt manual start Generac I got 2 years ago at HD for $500, it was a return with 5 hours on it. Noisy but not as bad as the unit it replaced. I just used it last night for a 12 hour storm related power outage. My buddy just got a Champion 7000 watt electric start multi fuel from Costco for just over $ 700 three weeks ago. Quieter, but not as quiet as a Honda, the gold standard. He plans on running his on propane. I helped him set it up and get it started. Very nice. both have 120 volt outlets as well as twist lock four wire 240 volt outlets. I have mine wired into my panel which requires manually throwing breakers, his is similar but it has a safety slide on his main breaker panel that disconnects the mains when connecting the generator.

    Both of us will have all our lights, refrigerator, microwave, fans, everything you need to be comfortable without running extension cords to things like your refrigerator. I can run my furnace, he can run a few electric baseboard heaters and his well pump ( I have city water). I lock out my range and a/c as they draw too much for the genny. When I am done using mine, I turn off the fuel and run the carb dry, he does the same but the propane isn't going to gum up a carb. Neither of us have a "whole house" genny, but you wouldn't know it driving by when everyone else is blacked out and our houses are lit up like a Christmas tree. My suggestion? Get a $700 genny and pay an electrician to install a separate generator panel with transfer switch. Get one that runs on natural gas or propane if possible, using a quick connect rubber gas line. Otherwise always keep the gas tank filled and hit it with Stabil, and run it every 3 months. Swap out the gas after 18 months if you don't otherwise use it.

    But if all you really want is something to keep your food cold, just get a small 2000 watter intended for a campsite, they are very quiet and small. Then run an extension cord to your fridge.

    The 240-120 power cord allows you to use two 15 or 20 amp circuits, thereby using all 4000 watts of power. But you could do the same just plugging into both of the 120 outlets on the generator. Run a couple of 12 ga extension cords into your house and split off there with your power strips.
    Last edited by Ole Anderson; 07-14-2016 at 9:34 PM.
    NOW you tell me...

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ole Anderson View Post
    I have a 5500 watt manual start Generac I got 2 years ago at HD for $500, it was a return with 5 hours on it. Noisy but not as bad as the unit it replaced. I just used it last night for a 12 hour storm related power outage. My buddy just got a Champion 7000 watt electric start multi fuel from Costco for just over $ 700 three weeks ago. Quieter, but not as quiet as a Honda, the gold standard. He plans on running his on propane. I helped him set it up and get it started. Very nice. both have 120 volt outlets as well as twist lock four wire 240 volt outlets. I have mine wired into my panel which requires manually throwing breakers, his is similar but it has a safety slide on his main breaker panel that disconnects the mains when connecting the generator.

    Both of us will have all our lights, refrigerator, microwave, fans, everything you need to be comfortable without running extension cords to things like your refrigerator. I can run my furnace, he can run a few electric baseboard heaters and his well pump ( I have city water). I lock out my range and a/c as they draw too much for the genny. When I am done using mine, I turn off the fuel and run the carb dry, he does the same but the propane isn't going to gum up a carb. Neither of us have a "whole house" genny, but you wouldn't know it driving by when everyone else is blacked out and our houses are lit up like a Christmas tree. My suggestion? Get a $700 genny and pay an electrician to install a separate generator panel with transfer switch. Get one that runs on natural gas or propane if possible, using a quick connect rubber gas line. Otherwise always keep the gas tank filled and hit it with Stabil, and run it every 3 months. Swap out the gas after 18 months if you don't otherwise use it.

    But if all you really want is something to keep your food cold, just get a small 2000 watter intended for a campsite, they are very quiet and small. Then run an extension cord to your fridge.

    The 240-120 power cord allows you to use two 15 or 20 amp circuits, thereby using all 4000 watts of power. But you could do the same just plugging into both of the 120 outlets on the generator. Run a couple of 12 ga extension cords into your house and split off there with your power strips.
    'Lots of good info. Thanks!
    Running cords into the house looks like to be the best option for me.

    I was wondering if there was a reason one could not use a power strip since the one linked in my op above only has one or two 120 outlets. Was starting to consider this one with eight 120 outlets. But $100 more.

    http://www.northerntool.com/shop/too...9023_200419023
    Last edited by Dave Lehnert; 07-14-2016 at 10:06 PM. Reason: Add link
    "Remember back in the day, when things were made by hand, and people took pride in their work?"
    - Rick Dale

  5. #5
    Here's an odd thought:

    Since you would be using this for the house, & just in an emergency -


    Get a 240v model, then jumper it into your main service entrance box with alligator clips, right onto the main rails. (Through a basement window, or in the garage, or whatever.) Turn the main breaker off, so you'd have no problems when the main power gets restored.

    You could then use anything in the house, without running cables all over the place, as long as you kept within the total current limitations of the generator. (No oven, etc.)

    I'm not sure about the legality of doing this, but it sure would be convenient.
    It would probably even be legal as long as you use portable cordage, but of course you should check first.
    Last edited by Allan Speers; 07-15-2016 at 1:10 AM.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Lehnert View Post
    Running cords into the house looks like to be the best option for me.
    A suggestion for convenience: When I lived in a city and had frequent power outages, I put the generator in a ventilated storage area under a porch and ran a cable to a box then Romex to one duplex outlet located centrally in the house. During a power outage I plugged extension cords into that outlet for the freezer, lamp, etc. That way it was very quick and easy to plug up and I didn't have to snake an extension cord out a window or door. (Funny, but since we moved to the country the power doesn't go out and my generator hasn't been needed in 13 years.)

    Power strip or not, make a list of the wattage of everything you might plan to plug into the generator and make sure the family understands they may not plug anything in without consulting with you. Also, generators may put out very "noisy" power which can cause malfunction or damage to sensitive electronic devices.

    If buying a new generator, I would personally look for one that would power my MIG welder at 220v to make it portable.

    BTW, be careful when connecting a generator to the house breaker panel without a transfer switch. Besides the chance of blowing up your generator and burning your house down when the power comes back on (even with the main breaker turned off) it can be very dangerous for the lineman trying to restore power - the transformer can step up the voltage to thousands of volts and feed it back into the utility lines. A utility guy told me that once and just now I read this:
    I worked as a high voltage lineman for 30 years and have seen all kinds of squirrelly generator set ups. It is never a good idea to plug your generator into your home's wiring even if your turn your main off. NEC requires that a transfer switch be used. I have seen more than a few main breakers that had failed and were still on when they showed off. If you do not have a transfer switch, you risk sending power back through your breaker and meter, back to the transformer, and stepping 120 volts up to line voltage. No a good thing for the linemen out in the middle of the night, in bad weather, trying to restore everyone's power.

    The comment above was referenced in this thread which discusses feeding power from a generator to the panel:

    http://diy.stackexchange.com/questio...ctrical-system

    This story is also an entertaining warning: http://www.electricgeneratorsdirect....Generator.html

    JKJ

  7. #7
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    1) Wiring into your panel without an approved transfer switch is both illegal and dangerous.
    2) Gasoline is difficult to store or buy during a significant outage. Buy the smallest generator you can so you don't need much gas. I have run my fridge, freezer, computer, a few lights and a television on a 2kw genny for a week a couple times. A kerosene heater makes more sense than a space heater, and you can live without a microwave for a few days; rather better than having nothing because you ran out of gas.
    3) Propane is much better than gasoline, but you have to choose between junk and a high price.
    4) My HVAC guy loves outages; they get to do a lot of repairs from people running their furnaces on crappy generators. (you get what you pay for).

  8. #8
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    I had a 9 HP Honda generator,but it burned out after being used for 3 or 4 years during Winter blackouts. An electrician friend said it had a cheap and poorly made generator unit that shorted out. I liked the motor because it would let off compression while starting it. Now I have another (Toro?),which is more powerful. But I can hardly pull the cord because it does not let off compression,and I have too much arthritis to start the blasted thing. At the time there was a long blackout and everyone was desperate to get a generator. We bought them as they were being unloaded from the truck at Lowes.

  9. #9
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    I've owned a bunch of generators over the years as I've almost always had a well and lived where outages are not uncommon. I always install a manual transfer panel with an outdoor inlet for the generator, mostly because it's not practical to run a well pump off extension cords. If all you want to run is a microwave and a heater and a few lights, running cords is a pain but manageable.

    A lot of bigger microwaves (1000+ watts) have quite a starting surge; don't be surprised if you pop a breaker on a 3500 watt unit if you have a big space heater on when you start the MW. Solution is to turn of the heater while you use the MW. Have a couple of 12 or at least 14 gauge extension cords for the bigger loads. Microwaves don't like skimpy cords.

    You are going to want wheels. Generators without wheels are ok for construction sites where there are plenty of strong arms, but not ideal for home use. No-flat tires are also what you want, otherwise they will be flat every time you go to use the generator.

    Make sure unit has a fuel shut off, so you can run it dry without having to empty the tank. Add long term fuel stabilizer to all gas you put it in.

    Buy an extra 5 gallon gas can so you always have fuel. Rotate the cans when fueling lawn and garden equipment so none of the gas gets old.

    Run it for 5-10 minutes with a load in the spring and the fall to make sure all is well, then close the fuel shutoff and let it run dry.

    Change the oil after the first 5 hours of use and then every year thereafter, whether you used it or not.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Lehnert View Post
    I was wondering if there was a reason one could not use a power strip since the one linked in my op above only has one or two 120 outlets.
    Each outlet on the 120 v duplex receptacle on the generator is circuit breakered at 20 amps which will give you a max of 2400 watts per outlet, therefore you need two extension cords into the house to utilize all 3400 watts. No problem putting a power strip at the end of each of the two 12 ga cords.

    And when adding up your wattage, remember that if any of your plug-ins has a motor, the starting wattage is likely 3 times the running (rated) wattage. So if you have a 3/4 hp well pump that has a running wattage of, say, 900 watts, that motor alone will need about 2700 watts to start, same with a furnace. So you can see why we don't try to run a whole house a/c unless you have a very large generator. They draw lots of amps on startup.
    Last edited by Ole Anderson; 07-15-2016 at 10:15 AM.
    NOW you tell me...

  11. The Champion generators are excellent and have excellent customer service. I have one.

  12. #12
    I have the same Champion 7000w dual-fuel unit from Costco that Ole mentioned, and it is connected to our main panel via a professionally-installed interlock switch (Turn the main breaker off, slide the interlock plate up, then turn on the back-fed breaker for the generator) and a 240v generator cable with twist lock ends. I plan to run it on propane unless I run out, and then switch to gasoline.

    I've only had to use it twice for a total runtime of less than 10 hours (our power has been oddly reliable since I bought it a year and a half ago), but I am able to run about 80-90% of our house on it, including all the lights, most of the outlets, 2 refrigerators, a chest freezer, the microwave, and the blower for our gas furnace. I left the breakers for the clothes dryer, dishwasher, oven, shop, and pond waterfall pump off since those are the really big draw items. It's the perfect size for our needs. I plan to put little dot stickers on the breakers that I will be using when the generator is running.

    John Jordan has it right: Add up the wattage of everything you want to run (watts = amps x volts) and don't forget to include some overhead (10-20%?) for startup surges. Lowes has a good worksheet for guestimating how much generator you'll need: http://www.lowes.com/projects/pdfs/p...tage-chart.pdf

    And there is nothing wrong with using a power strip attached to a generator, just keeping in mind that you don't want to overload either the generator or the power strip. If you're ok with running extension cords everywhere, by all means do that, but it is really nice to not have to do that by instead having it wired into the main panel with an interlock or a transfer switch.
    ~Garth

  13. #13
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    Dave

    The 240vac out to Quad 120vac is just giving you more 120vac receptacles. It differs from a strip because in the case of the strip, you have multiple outlets fed from a single source, and would be limited by the total current draw. Theoretically the 240vac to quad 120vac would give you 4 120vac circuits, with their own protection.

    Everything about selecting a generator is dependent on the loads that you need to keep energized. Don't just look at generator total watts, because you do not get total watts out of a single line. It is the combination of all the generator outputs added together. Usually the one single 240vac out will be backed by a 30 amp breaker.

    Unless you really, really, really have an absolute understanding of house household distribution circuits and a firm understanding of AC circuit theory. Do not "Hot Rod" your own generator into your service distribution panel. It is illegal and very dangerous. Even backfeeding through a 30, or 50 amp receptacle is only slightly less dangerous. A small generator transfer panel, with a manual disconnect, is about $500.00 and will probably cost you about a grand to have a licensed electrician install it in a code compliant manner.

    If you have a lot of microprocessor/digital controllers in your appliances, you want an inverting style generator. Both of the units that you have highlighted are good for basic lights, and older style appliances. You could probably run a well pump controller, and an older furnace controller. I do not know what you have for appliances.
    Propane or gas is a personal choice, but propane has less "butt" than gasoline, oil, or natural gas, per unit volume, so you need to oversize a propane powered generator, or have it set up for tri-fuel. Propane is also expensive and there is no guarantee that in a widespread outage you can have propane delivered. Then again, there are no guarantees with any fuel source.

    It really does take a lot of forethought to select a genrator. It is much better that you are thinking ahead, instead of just being reactionary.
    "The first thing you need to know, will likely be the last thing you learn." (Unknown)

  14. #14
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    A lot of good info.
    Thanks to everyone who replied.
    "Remember back in the day, when things were made by hand, and people took pride in their work?"
    - Rick Dale

  15. #15
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    I forget what brand mine is, but it gets used so rarely that I keep an extra carburetor in case it goes too many years in between uses. For instance, I don't think it got used from Hurricane Floyd, until Hurricane Isabel. The carb came in handy that time. I ordered another spare after I put it away then. Even though I run all the gas out of it when put away, they don't do good sitting for years.

    If you have an electric water heater, you will want one that runs 240v.

    I have too many pieces to start every month or two, and especially since you can buy carbs off ebay for less than 20 bucks. I ordered a new carb for a backup string trimmer yesterday. It was 13.89 including shipping for a carb for an FS85.

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