Contributor
I guess I could have been more clear but Shiraz explained the problem. If Grizzly tells you they will have stock in say June that is because Byrd told them that. When Junes comes and goes and no heads it's not the retailers fault but they do take the blame because they have the order.
This is a big issue for me at the moment and I know it has damaged my reputation. I have DW735 heads on order since late March that have not shipped and no indication of when they will.
Contributor
Seems like everyone is blaming everyone else but no one has a clue how to resolve the underlying problem. If Grizzly knows Byrd is slow on delivery they really only have two choices, stock an adequate inventory (which no one wants to do these days and probably isn't possible with Byrd's current issues, whatever they are) or cut bait and find another supplier. In my mind it makes no sense to continue to offer a product option you can't source in a timely manner. A customer shouldn't have to wait months to get the machine he wants. Even worse is having to install something that should come on the machine to begin with. If you don't have the machine the customer wants you should just tell him so, apologize, and offer an alternative if you have one. If you don't, you shouldn't be selling him something that doesn't meet his expectations. That almost always goes south.
You can only expect customers to be tolerant to a point. Eventually, they go away - and they tell their friends.
Maybe Grizzly should buy Byrd.
John
Administrator
John,
In the past companies kept large inventories of merchandise so they were able to ship products as orders came in and they always knew what they had in inventory and when it was time to restock. This changed in 2008 when the banks caused the economic bust. For a long time afterward we had long waiting lists for even inexpensive items like engravers plastic.
Grizzly had three huge warehouses full of machines and there was a run on their inventory which was great until the shelves were empty and they got caught up in the delivery slowdown of products from overseas manufacturers. You do know that Grizzly recently had to close their facility in Pennsylvania, I'm sure they didn't like the idea but it was necessary.
Things have changed! Manufacturers don't know what to produce without orders which used to happen well in advance because companies were restocking inventory. Today everyone is short ordering because they cannot afford to maintain large inventories anymore. Manufacturers can't schedule large product runs overnight hence the insane delivery problems with the system being choked at a variety of places along its path. Now you order what you want and wait for it to be manufactured which is why the long waiting periods are common and its extremely difficult to predict a delivery date.
Complain all you want but the problem is not with the retailers. Threatening to take your business elsewhere is not a reasonable reaction to this problem as most importers are caught up in the same issues with overseas manufacturers. Note that many decades ago blue collar workers could not afford any of the larger woodworking or metalworking machines like Delta or Powermatic. They were way over the average persons budgets so only a business could afford a machine other than Sears Craftsman. When Grizzly opened their doors they brought a much higher level of machines to the market that working people could afford. I wanted a new planer for many years but couldn't afford any of the big name products and there wasn't an alternative until Grizzly came along. I purchased my 500 pound Grizzly planer from one of the first catalogs they printed, way before the Internet started.
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Last edited by Keith Outten; 07-19-2016 at 11:41 AM.
Member
This is the right answer. Every business has problems but if you know you have the problem and do nothing about it you deserve for your reputation to suffer.Originally Posted by John TenEyck
Member
Why was the title of this thread changed to not include the Grizzly brand name?
If at first you don't succeed, redefine success!
Contributor
A very good question...I wonder if you'll get an official answer.
Member
Probably not, just really want to know if it was the OP or the mods. And if it was the mods that makes me wonder if SawMillCreek is in bed with Grizzly somehow.
If at first you don't succeed, redefine success!
Guest
It stinks you have to wait. I'm not sure how big Byrd is, what their financial position is, or what their goals are. I'm guessing that they are gambling on that they aren't going to be as busy as they are, so growth through more space, more equipment, and more bodies isn't worth it. Or, the owner(s) have been at it for thirty plus years and just not interested.
There's a million possibilities, but either way your stuck waiting. That sucks, but it's reality.
I'm waiting for a new widget to show up. It sat waiting for pickup for a week, went from Oregon to Kansas City, to Minneapolis, to somewhere in Wisconsin, and it's supposed to be here tomorrow. I'm doubtful.
I had to wait almost six months for my new widebelt. I think they strapped it to the slowest turtle they could find, then whatever union controls the docks screwed it up even further.
Really Keith? You're laying blame on the banks? Really?
Member
Blaming things like this on the "banks" isn't far off as that is just one of the causes of poor economy, tiny margins, unreasonable expectations of investors, etc.
We want stuff for nothing and the costs of manufacturing, warehousing, shipping, etc. just keep climbing. Backorder is becoming too common on all goods like that. If it is made up of other items, then any one item can cause the finished product to be late.
I can't imagine Grizzly would charge for the item until it is shipped.
IF having the head was critical to the function of the machine, then it sounds like that should have been considered before the order. If it was then there are lots of ways that can go sideways if you rely on a backorder being shipped on time. Easy to make assumptions on both sides.
It makes some sense that Grizzly was removed from the title with everyone assuming they bear all the blame and have poor customer service.
Last edited by Greg R Bradley; 07-19-2016 at 1:08 PM.
Contributor
Well, they certainly aren't demonstrating what I would term GOOD customer service in this instance. I see nothing wrong with leaving Grizzly's name in the title.
Member
When I was told to wait for 6 months by Hammer/Felder, my jaw dropped but the waiting was not as agonizing as I thought. If I were treated like Dirk, that 6 months would have been pure frustration, no matte who's wrong.
Member
Maybe we can find out which bank Grizzly uses and put their name on the title of the thread, make sense to anyone?
Member
I own several Grizzlys and have always been satisfied with their service and their product, but in this instance they do bear all the blame.
They gave delivery information, apparently knowing the supplier was unreliable. They shouldn't have done that. It left the OP holding the bag, when he did nothing at all wrong. Proper customer service would have been accepting the return for full credit, or shipping the alternate head at the original price.
Even if you say it was mostly Byrd's fault, the OP was not Byrd's customer. (Byrd will probably blame it on their carbide supplier, who will blame it on global warming. None of that matters; it is properly Grizzly's problem)
Administrator
I removed Grizzly's name from the thread title because its unfair to blame or to publicly tarnish the name of a company for problems beyond their control. That's my interpretation of the issue.
As to whether SawMill Creek is "In Bed with Grizzly" they are a very loyal advertiser here that provide a significant portion of the funds it takes to allow those who do not contribute financially to participate for free. Secondly it is not the mission of this Community to publicly bash companies, particularly when most problems should be handled between the two parties offline. Using SawMill Creek as a weapon or to gain leverage against any company is way below the standards of this Community.
----------------------------------------------------------------------From our Read Me First Announcement
Before You Rant Read This December 20th, 2010
"It is the intent of SMC to permit the airing of concerns regarding the suitability of a particular product, or the quality or sufficiency of customer service provided by a vendor in any particular instance provided there is not a breach of contract component involved.
However, these threads often deteriorate into a "piling on" and develop a very negative tone. That doesn't assist other viewers in assessing the overall advisability of whether to buy this particular product, nor to assess the overall customer service provided by that manufacturer/vendor.
In order to be fair to the many vendors that provide woodworking products, the following policies will be in force:
The original poster must have first contacted the manufacturer/vendor and have attempted a solution PRIOR to posting the thread.
The original poster should provide factual details of the problem, and details of efforts that have been made with the manufacturer/vendor to rectify the problem.
Subsequent posts must be limited to suggestions to the original poster to assist in rectifying the problem - not to pile on because you had similar problems.
SMC is a woodworking forum. The intended purpose is to provide a community in which useful information may be shared among the members. Threads that do not achieve that purpose will be locked, or removed if necessary." SawMill Creek is not a Court of Law and we are not in a position to judge a breach of contract case here, therefore SawMill Creek will not become a stage or a courtroom for a legal dispute between two or more parties, it just isn't our mission.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Am I protective of our Advertisers, YOU BET I AM. In 2005 the Members of this Community decided that they wanted SawMill Creek to remain a Free Access Community with advertising support. I was against this transition but I supported the will of the majority here. Part of my job since then is to attract new advertisers and retain our existing advertisers and its a tough job to do and not bite the hand that feeds us.
.
Member
Keith, it's your forum so I guess you can do most anything you want, but I do not agree with you -- you should have left Grizzly's name on the title.
If you want this forum to have credibility then it needs to be seen as even handed. When you or the other moderators defend a company like Grizzly over something this obvious you look a little silly. Taking their name off is even worse.
I don't see anyone piling on, we are just calling it like we see it. I will add this, when the moderators get involved and try to defend the indefensible you actually make it worse. You need to rethink this one.
Last, because we are contributors, including the OP, do we get the same consideration you give the advertisers?
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