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Thread: Buffing questions

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
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    South Carolina
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    Buffing questions

    I've had a few bowls recently that didn't have quite the sheen I wanted (primarily on oil finishes), so I've decided to pick up some buffing equipment. I'm not a big fan of wax for most items, so I'll probably skip the carnauba step (though I'm buying all three wheels in case I change my mind). I still need to pickup some compounds and a mount (I'm thinking of creating my own mount instead of buying one).

    I'm sure everyone has their own take on this... what is your buffing recipe? do you skip any compounds (I've seen the warnings about white diamond in dark open-pore woods)? What happens if you buff without any kind of compound on a wheel (say with a clean wax wheel)? Other thoughts/tips?

  2. Aaron, you can buy all three wheels and compounds, along with the MT-2 arbor in a kit from Beall. It will save you a good bit over getting them separately from different sources.

    http://www.bealltool.com/products/buffing/buffer.php
    Remember, in a moments time, everything can change!

    Vision - not just seeing what is, but seeing what can be!




  3. #3
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    Sep 2015
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    Thanks, Roger. I looked at that before and didn't notice the 4" kit. Unfortunately, I already order the wheels through Craft Supply. Not that I really paid more for them. The three wheel set is the same price on both sides. But I could have gotten the compounds with them at the same time. *shrug* oh well... I can pick those up at my local tool store.

    How well does the MT2 arbor work? I was concerned that without tailstock support it might slip out of the taper. I was thinking about drilling a hole for the arbor into the end of a spindle blank, gluing a nut in to match the threads on the arbor, and put either a tenon (for chucking) or tapping (1x8 for my lathe) on the other end. Obviously tapping would be challenging because I'll need to find a thick enough piece of stock to allow the threads to be cut into face grain (and also I don't know if I have a 1x8 tap at my disposal). Another thought was to do something similar with steel pipe to make something similar to the hold fast adapter. Or maybe just mount it in a Jacob's chuck (which of course would have the same issues as the MT2 taper)? Not sure what my options might be until I get the wheels...

  4. #4
    You can do the buffing with a morse taper drill chuck and $3 generic "mushroom" buffs. Maybe the beall stuff is better, but it's not necessary. You just tap the chuck in with a mallet, and it's not going to come out. From time to time I have just shoved the chuck in (too lazy to remove the buff already in it) and when it gets loose it doesn't fly out dramatically. It just sort of falls onto the lathe ways.

    Personally I rarely use the coarser ("tripoli") compound and will use the white diamond or silicone free automotive polish.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
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    Kapolei Hawaii
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    I did some hunting around trying to save some money, and wound up buying the Beall system anyways. What I learned is that all wheels and buffs are not the same. The different compounds, Tripoli/W.D./carnuba require different fabric. Some fabrics, if you buy generic wheels, say cotton, have different stiffness, some are hard and tightly woven others are not. Some wheels are loose and some are stitched, some are fully stitched. The tightly woven fabrics are mostly for metal polishing. You could research what fabrics go with which compound, and which application. Save yourself the frustration of tossing out the aforementioned fuly stitched wheel because it just does not work on wood. It's way too stiff. Not saying that the Beall system is the best, there are many others, but I'm happy with it and they already did all the research.

    I do know folks who only use carnuba..... You need to do a LOT of sanding. Very fine grits. And your wood should be very hard and close grained. Looks awesome. A very different luster on the wood. Very warm to the touch. Something only a wood lover would see.

  6. Quote Originally Posted by Aaron Craven View Post
    How well does the MT2 arbor work? I was concerned that without tailstock support it might slip out of the taper..
    Aaron, I use a piece of all thread which is recommended by Beall to run through the headstock spindle and put a washer and wing nut on the hand wheel on the outer side of the headstock to keep ithe MT-2 snug in the spindle.It is called a draw bar, and will secure the MT-2 in the spindle.
    Last edited by Roger Chandler; 07-20-2016 at 7:08 PM.
    Remember, in a moments time, everything can change!

    Vision - not just seeing what is, but seeing what can be!




  7. My Jacobs chuck on a morse taper came with the end drilled and tapped to accept a threaded rod. Cut a piece of wood (I use 1/4" ply) large enough to cover the end of the spindle coming off the left side of the headstock. Drill a hole for the threaded rod to go through; screw the rod into the morse tapper. Secure the Jacobs with a wing nut on the other end of the rod which will pull the morse tapper in when the nut is tightened against the piece of wood. The morse tapper will not slip out.

  8. #8
    If you find yourself with a stiff, stitched wheel, you can just cut the stitches. Instant soft wheel.

    As far as different buffing compounds "requiring" linen or linen-cotton -- that's clever advertising, but it seems to be something Beall invented to sell their wheels. Just my opinion of course, but I've never heard of anybody saying you had to have linen to buff anything else. There isn't even much of a difference between muslin and flannel. Usually it's just the thickness of the yarns that are used [plus flannel often has the nap raised], but the yarns on the outside of the wheel will be heavily abraded no matter what.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
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    Fredericksburg, TX
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    I was lucky to buy buffing systems from Don Pencil when he had them, including both 8 and 12" shafts for 1 -1/4" thread and a 8" shaft for 1" thread. You can find the 8" but no one seems to be making the 12" now but it is really nice on large bowls/pieces for clearance. Direct mounting to lathe drive is the easiest and also gives variable speeds for different buffing conditions. The #2 MT drive can come loose when buffing and the 3 wheel on one shaft is marginal for small items like pens, but useless for larger items like bowls. The threaded shaft has a 3/8" thread for mounting wheels or buffs. The 8" wheels are good for larger pieces, and the "buffs" (2, 3, 4" etc) are good for interior, but I have made and like smaller wheels (3, 4, and 6") for smaller bowls and similar. The Beale Tripoli compound has worked well for me for initial buffing prior to oil coating, and after each coat of oil including final coat at about 1800 rpm. I usually skip the white diamond and then use Renaisance as final wax at about 1200 rpm. The heavier/coarser linen works best with Tripoli and the soft linen for the wax. Elevator bolts (large flat head from Fastenal) work better than carriage bolts with round head. Welcome to the buffing age.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
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    E TN, near Knoxville
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    12,298
    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron Craven View Post
    How well does the MT2 arbor work? I was concerned that without tailstock support it might slip out of the taper.
    The beale MT2 arbors are drilled and tapped for a drawbar but I have never used one. I insert the arbor into the spindle taper and push while giving it a twist. This has always held fine, very quick, and comes out with another twist.

    I did buy two extra arbors, one for each buffing wheel. This saves a huge amount of time when swapping wheels. You can also turn a wooden cylinder, install a threaded insert for a bolt to hold the buffing wheel, and mount the cylinder in a chuck. I have one Frank Penta made for me which is about 8" long, a nice extension for some pieces.

    I do NOT like the system with three buffing wheels mounted on one long shaft. For me there is not enough clearance for some pieces.

    As for the compound, I use what came with the Beale wheels - a reddish rouge, fine "white diamond", and wax. I apply compound or wax VERY sparingly to the wheels. I do not use the white diamond on dark wood that can hold and show the white particles in the pores.

    JKJ

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    lufkin tx
    Posts
    2,054
    I've been making and using buffing wheels for many years. Buy a #2 spindle for each wheel. I use only red rouge if needed and go to liquid auto buffing coimpounds after that. They do not burn and come in various grits. Also liquid auto carnuba waxes are great and burn proof. There are even compound/carnuba mixes(liquid) that are time savers. Forget the 3 wheels on a shaft unless you turn pens ect. Also you can do all your compounding and waxing while the piece is still on the lathe-especially larger pieces. An extension for the spindle sure is handy for this.
    Last edited by robert baccus; 07-20-2016 at 11:53 PM.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    The Great Northwest
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    474
    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron Craven View Post
    Thanks, Roger. I looked at that before and didn't notice the 4" kit. Unfortunately, I already order the wheels through Craft Supply. Not that I really paid more for them. The three wheel set is the same price on both sides. But I could have gotten the compounds with them at the same time. *shrug* oh well... I can pick those up at my local tool store.

    How well does the MT2 arbor work? I was concerned that without tailstock support it might slip out of the taper. I was thinking about drilling a hole for the arbor into the end of a spindle blank, gluing a nut in to match the threads on the arbor, and put either a tenon (for chucking) or tapping (1x8 for my lathe) on the other end. Obviously tapping would be challenging because I'll need to find a thick enough piece of stock to allow the threads to be cut into face grain (and also I don't know if I have a 1x8 tap at my disposal). Another thought was to do something similar with steel pipe to make something similar to the hold fast adapter. Or maybe just mount it in a Jacob's chuck (which of course would have the same issues as the MT2 taper)? Not sure what my options might be until I get the wheels...
    If you got the 3-wheel set on the long mandrel, be sure it fits tightly in your spindle. Tailstock pressure is not enough, and the mandrel isn't really drilled for a drawbar. For whatever reason, it didn't perfectly fit my older Jet 1236, and scarred both the mandrel and the lathe spindle. I tried a second mandrel, same problem, and finally went to the individual 4" wheels on the screw-on-the-spindle adapter. Beall was great about helping me with the problems.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
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    South Carolina
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie Straw View Post
    If you got the 3-wheel set on the long mandrel, be sure it fits tightly in your spindle. Tailstock pressure is not enough, and the mandrel isn't really drilled for a drawbar. For whatever reason, it didn't perfectly fit my older Jet 1236, and scarred both the mandrel and the lathe spindle. I tried a second mandrel, same problem, and finally went to the individual 4" wheels on the screw-on-the-spindle adapter. Beall was great about helping me with the problems.
    I didn't. I primarily want to use it with bowls, so I got individual 4" round wheels. I thought about the bowl buffs, but the wheels were cheaper. I may one day go back and get the bowl buffs too.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by robert baccus View Post
    Also liquid auto carnuba waxes are great and burn proof. There are even compound/carnuba mixes(liquid) that are time savers. Forget the 3 wheels on a shaft unless you turn pens ect. Also you can do all your compounding and waxing while the piece is still on the lathe-especially larger pieces. An extension for the spindle sure is handy for this.
    All the auto carnuba waxes I looked at had silicone in them, which popular opinion holds to be a no-no. Are the ones you're using silicone free, and, if so, can you recommend some?

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Atikokan, Rainy River district, Ontario
    Posts
    3,540
    I have polished my turnings for many years already, no Beall around then, I always have bought the buffing wheels that you can buy in automotive stores, and made some large ones myself.

    The store bought ones you can change some by cutting the stitched threads so you get a softer wheel.

    The ones I made I used different materials and combined it, like linen and cotton and flannel.

    I also went for separate wheels that I can hold in a chuck, so all have arbors for that, especially for larger bowl there is not enough room on a lathe and so I added a drill chuck to an electric motor.

    I use a still good chuck from a drill that was burned out, with a sleeve that fit the motor and the chuck, the buffing motor can be clamped on a bench or stored away easily.

    With bowls still held on the lathe I use a drill and polish/buff right on the lathe, both the inside and outside can be done that way.

    Two large fender washers and a bolt will make an arbor to clamp the buffing wheel that than can be held in either the drill or the buffing motor, works for me

    I do use the polishing compound bars like Beall has, the more liquid stuff makes a mess.

    With a good coating on the pieces that close the grain there is no problem using either the rouge or diamond compounds, as for the carnauba wax I don’y use it often and only sparingly on some pieces that are non-food use.

    Here a couple pictures of my parts and pieces that I use and have accumulated over the years.

    Buffer parked.jpg ready to use.jpg drill with buffing wheel.jpg drill mounted buffer.jpg buffing on the lathe.jpg spare buffs.jpg
    Have fun and take care

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