Performance Curve for Oneida Super Dust Gorilla 5 HP

[Larry Frank]

Several months ago, I purchased the Super Dust Gorilla 5 HP from Oneida. Previously, I had a Jet 1.5 HP which was just not doing enough to pull the fine dust from my tools.

The specifications on the OneidaSuper Dust Gorilla were:

· 5 HP US made Baldor motor
· Max Performance 1860 CFM at 2.5” SP
· 8” Inlet
· HEPA MERV 16+ Filter

Given my new tool, I wanted to see how well it really performed compared to the Oneida performance curve.

I did the testing using tools borrowed from John Lanciani. I give my thanks to John for loaning very nice tools to do the testing. He has also offered to loan them to others. It would be great to see some others do the testing and have some comparison data from a variety of dust collectors.
The tools were a Dwyer 471 Digital Thermal Anemometer, UEi 151 Digital Manometer, and a clamp ammeter.

To do the testing, I installed two 24” lengths of 8” duct to the 8” inlet of the dust collector. I also built a cone to insert into the end of the duct using an 8” funnel mounted on a ½” threaded rod with a handle on the end. It was easy to use this to change the flow from zero to over 1800 cfm. One note about the testing. It would have been better to have a longer length of pipe to increase the distance between the funnel and the measuring point and to the inlet of the dust collector. Unfortunately, with the way my dust collector is installed in my garage, there was not enough room to do this.

P7170004 Funnel Crank 2 M.jpg

I took a set of measurements at full open and full close and at 1” SP intervals in between. The position of the measurements was based upon suggestions in the literature. In order to make the positions of these measurements reproducible, keep the probe steady and keep it properly oriented, I built a stand for the digital anemometer probe. This allowed the probe to be raised and lowered to specific heights in the duct.

I have attached pictures of the stand, the thermal anemometer and the anemometer tip. There are two holes in the tip. One is the hot wire anemometer and the other measures temperature. The probe must be kept perpendicular to the air flow to get accurate readings.

P7170017 Probe Stand M.JPG20160721_DW471 M.jpg20160721_DW471 Tip M.jpg

The graph shows the flow for the averaged measurements and the squares in the graph are the data from the Oneida website.
The data was plotted on a graph along with the data from the Oneida website. My measurements (diamonds) were slightly lower than those provided by Oneida (squares) but within about 10% and therefore within the accuracy of the instruments and the measurements.

Duct Graph 3 M.jpg

Velocity measurements in the pipe ranged from 1100 fpm to 4700 fpm in the 8” duct.

Current measurements were made with the clamp ammeter for maximum air flow and for no air flow.
· Fully closed with minimum air flow - 7.2 amps
· Fully open with maximum air flow of 1650 cfm – 12.5 amps

In addition, measurements were made of the filter pressure at static pressure and various flow rates. Filter pressure ranged from about 0.5” at high static pressure with low flow rates and about 3.0” at low static pressure with high flow rates. This suggests that one needs to monitor filter condition at about the same flow or static pressure level.

Filter Pressure M.jpg

OK, why go to all this effort to test the dust collector even though it does not represent actual operating conditions.
· I wanted to determine if I got what I paid for in terms of performance and the answer is yes.
· I wanted to provide actual data so anyone could see actual data not provided by the dust collector company.
· I am hoping that several people will decide to borrow the instruments from John Lanciani and provide actual data on other dust collectors.
· I would like to see data on some of the 1.5 hp dust collectors and the HF collector.


I did some measurements of my Jet 1.5 HP Vortex Canister dust collector. My measurement of static pressure was made using a homemade manometer gave 10.25” and very close to the specs. However, the CFM measured using a digital anemometer gave only about 670 cfm at the 6” port on the collector and about 450 cfm at the 4” port at the collector. This is no where near the Jet claimed 110 cfm.

I have another post that I am working on which details the measurements made in my shop with the actual 6” and 4” piping, blast gates and hooked up to a couple of my machines. This data is much more useful as it shows exactly what type flow rates I am achieving to pull the dust out of my shop.

[Ole Anderson]

Frank, nice job of verifying the fan curve provided by Oneida, as you say within 10% should be good by anybody's measure. Although at 8" sp 1080 vs 1300 cfm would be about 20%. It would be interesting to repeat the measurements with the filter removed, replicating the situation of someone venting the unit outdoors. Wondering if the two curves can simply be added together, probably not? Of some interest I see your maximum draw is 12.5 amps, this seems very low for a 5 hp motor. On their website they rate that motor at 19.5 amps. Again on the website, they rate the 3 hp version at 14.5 amps and the 2 hp version at 11.5 amps, although the max I measure is with mine is 10.4 amps (digital Amprobe clamp on meter) with all gates wide open. Have you looked at the motor nameplate for FLA rating?

Somewhat less accurate, I used a pair of Magnehelic gauges and a Velocitor anemometer to spot check the performance of my 2 hp Oneida Super Dust Gorilla. Interestingly at the time I was looking to purchase Oneida had two different fan curves posted on their web site for the same unit. The one that was most obvious if you were looking showed a curve that was at least an inch higher in pressure (or suction depending on your terminology) than the one buried deeper in their literature. It turned out that the second one was the curve that matched most closely the measurements I took, and of course was the one I found after purchase. I was somewhat disappointed as had I known I likely would have bumped up to the 3 hp model which would have given three inches more pressure at 800 cfm than the unit I bought. I am not at all disappointed in the performance of my 2 hp unit, largely because I went with 7" main ducting, avoiding measurable losses due to additional friction. But being one interested in specifications, bigger is always better.

[David Kumm]

Great information. What it tells me is that at least in your case, you could use a 16" impeller to boost your cfm under higher pressure and still not come close to overamping your motor. The gains are pretty substantial given that in the real world we are often operating at the 8-12" SP range. My experience with the oneida 15" impeller was also that there was no way to increase the cfm much even when using a vfd and speeding up the impeller. Mine never got close to exceeding FLA with an 8" opening either. I wish they offered two impeller sizes and let the buyer pick the proper one for their design. Fair disclosure, I run big old machines that need a lot of cfm so optimizing the impeller design is a big deal. Dave

[John Lanciani]

Nicely done Larry. Real Information like this helps all of us make better decisions when it comes time to spend our hard earned dollars.

If anyone else would like to borrow the test equipment please pm me directly.

[Larry Frank]

The plate on the motor shows 19.5 amps. I measured the amps with a clamp on meter on one wire in the on off switch box. I am afraid that my electrical knowledge is weak. Is it possible that I made an error in the measurement? If so, I would appreciate any suggestions to get better measurements.

I posted the data in the hopes of encouraging more discussion with real data.

[Jason Lester]

The plate on the motor shows 19.5 amps. I measured the amps with a clamp on meter on one wire in the on off switch box. I am afraid that my electrical knowledge is weak. Is it possible that I made an error in the measurement? If so, I would appreciate any suggestions to get better measurements.

I posted the data in the hopes of encouraging more discussion with real data.

I believe that means you were only reading roughly 1/2 of what the motor was actually pulling.

[David L Morse]

I believe that means you were only reading roughly 1/2 of what the motor was actually pulling.

No, Larry got it right. That's the correct current reading. If he had clamped the meter around both leads the reading would be zero.

The plate on the motor shows 19.5 amps. I measured the amps with a clamp on meter on one wire in the on off switch box. I am afraid that my electrical knowledge is weak. Is it possible that I made an error in the measurement? If so, I would appreciate any suggestions to get better measurements.

I posted the data in the hopes of encouraging more discussion with real data.

12.5A doesn't really sound unreasonable. That system is designed for the hobbyist market where a manufacturer has to protect himself from lawsuits and forum bashings. Instruction manual warnings have been shown to not accomplish that. Instead the system needs to be idiot-proof. Although I wouldn't suggest trying it, you could probably run that cyclone without the filters or any ducting and barely hit 19.5A.

[Jim Andrew]

I have a question about impellers, since it has been mentioned. Why do the cyclone manufacturers build impellers with back facing blades, in order to have larger diameter impellers, when a straight blade impeller of smaller diameter will move an equal amount of air. Why make it harder to manufacture than necessary? Is this just sales pitch?

[Ben Rivel]

Pretty cool. Id love to get some data like this from my Oneida V-3000 3HP setup Im almost done putting together. I had actually been looking at buying a Dwyer 471 to do the testing.

[John Lanciani]

Pretty cool. Id love to get some data like this from my Oneida V-3000 3HP setup Im almost done putting together. I had actually been looking at buying a Dwyer 471 to do the testing.

Look here; http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...ata-from-my-DC

[Larry Frank]

Not to get too off topic on my own thread but.....I did some searching and reading about impeller types. There has been an incredible amount of work done on impeller design. Some of the best info for me was on the Wikapedia under centrifugal fan. I think the bottom line is efficiency and not any advertising hype.

[Larry Frank]

Several months ago, I purchased the Super Dust Gorilla 5 HP from Oneida. The specifications on the Super Dust Gorilla were:

• 5 HP US made Baldor motor
• Max Performance 1860 CFM at 2.5” SP
• 8” Inlet
• HEPA MERV 16+ Filter

I posted a couple of days ago the measured performance curve for this dust collector. That was all fine and somewhat interesting. But, the important part is not the performance curve but how well is works inside the shop hooked to the individual tools.

My shop is about 15 ft by 35 ft with the dust collector located just outside one end of the shop. It is piped through two 8” 90 long radius elbows and then reduced to 6”DWV.

The 6” DWV runs for about 12 feet and has drops for the table saw, planer and other larger tools. The next 15 ft is run with 4” PVC. One of my concerns was if I needed to redo the remainder of the shop with the 6” pipe.

Main Trunk.jpg

The flow at the first wye in the 6” pipe with no gate was measured at 1360 cfm compared to the 1658 cfm measured at the dust collector inlet. The drop in flow the result of thw two 90 degree elbows and the 8" to 6" reducer.


In the first section of pipe my shop, I am using 6” DWV pipe, 6” blast gates and then reducers, with 5” flex hose for the drops to equipment. The following schematic shows the hookup to the 4” port on my SawStop.

Flex 5 inch.jpg


There is very little drop going through the 6” blast gates but the 6” to 5” reducer results in a drop of just under 300 cfm to 1071 cfm.

The 10 feet of 5 inch flex house results in another 170 cfm drop and finally the 5” to 4” reducer another 180 cfm. This provides 720 cfm to the connection with the SawStop dust port. The SawStop restrictions cause another 50 cfm drop. All total, I have lost about half of my original total flow. The SawStop has the 4” port and the over blade dust collection on it. When cutting plywood, I cannot observe any dust coming off the blade area. I found similar flows when hooked to the 4” port on my Jet 15” Planer. The flow was adequate to completely pull all the dust and chips from the planer.

As a comparison, I hooked up a 6” to 4” reducer to the 6” blast gate and then 10 feet of 4” flex hose. The 6” to 4” reducer results in a large drop in air flow. But the end result is similar to using the 5” hose and then 5” to 4” reducer. Both provided about 720 cfm at the connection to the tool. I had expected that the 5” hose would perform better but the bottom line is that both are reduced to a 4” connection.
Quite a few people have written about modifying their machines to accept larger dust ports. There is no doubt that this would result in higher flow by several hundred cfm. But, in my case, the dust collection is very good with the 4” port and I am not certain if there is a benefit. Enlarging the dust port on the saw is certainly a future option.

I have been using a 4” elbow for convenience to hooking the tools to the dust collector. Testing shows that the elbow results in a 120 cfm drop in air flow and I will stop with this practice.

Flex 4 inch.jpg


After the first 12 feet of my shop with the 6” DWV, I am using 4” PVC. This area has my router table, band saw and drill press. The measured air flow to the drops for these machines is 600-800 cfm at a SP of 9.75 – 9.9”. For the time, this is adequate and does a pretty good job. As I work to improve dust collection this may be an area for improvement. However, with the machines only having 4” ports on them, I do not anticipate making any changes.

[James Gunning]

Your results certainly show the argument that bigger is better with duct sizing. When I tried 6" pipe on my small, one machine at a time system, the increased airflow over the previous 4" pipe was very obvious without any actual measurements. That prompted a hard look at increasing the size of the tool ports to take advantage of the increased airflow. There are some machines you may not feel like doing surgery on, but there may be ways to increase the airflow by using multiple ports wyed together without cutting into an expensive machine. I was able to adapt all of mine inexpensively without any surgery on the machines. Thanks for the diagrams, they are the clearest example I have ever seen of how the airflow is reduced and static pressure increased by ductwork and pipe size changes.

[David Kumm]

Straight blade ( radial ) impellers require more amps per cfm at low pressure so not as efficient and much more loud. The backward curved are more efficient but the trade off is they lose cfm at higher pressure. Speeding them up has limited benefits as they by design top off and don't gain much over their design capacity whereas a radial will continue to increase flow along with amp draw. That makes it easy to burn out a motor if you don't design the system correctly while a BI blade impeller is pretty safe. Because hobby systems vary so much, the curved blade is the safe bet although it delivers less cfm under pressure. That is why the pipe and fitting selection is so important. Commercial systems that are carefully designed can run whatever works the best. My system has 50-60 foot runs and 25+ gates with machines varying from a 4" port to two 6" ports so the radial works best with my 8" and 7" runs. Dave

[Ben Rivel]

Look here; http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...ata-from-my-DC

Wow, thank you for that. Thats gonna take me some time and research to wrap my head around. I have never delve to deep into dust collector science. I powered on my V-3000 for the first time today and was surprised that my hand got sucked into an open 5" port on a run that went up and over the shop and back down. Lot more suction than I expected. Never had a dust collector this large before.