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Thread: Raised panel cutter for shaper

  1. #31
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
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    Ouray Colorado
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    Dave,
    You can remove the Aigner cassettes and make a wood fence with 20 degree cuts on the end to fit in. They are held securely and no need to clamp them. Works good for freeborn panel raisers. For 1.25 shafts smaller diameter spacers can be had that help for getting in close. We usually use the 30mm shaft with bushings for these because the spacer is smaller.


    Wood fence 1.jpg
    Freeborn RP.jpg
    Angle fixing.jpg

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Ouray Colorado
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    1,392
    With 40 years in the business we have a collection of many panel raisers from HSS, braised carbide and tantung and now insert with the fine grained thin carbide. Those make the best cut and longest life of any but still require some sanding.
    I have not tried the Inovator head Jeff mentions but have heard good things about it.

    panel raisers.jpg
    Raise panel new.jpg
    Raise panel.jpg

  3. #33
    joe why do you cut from the bottom?

    top down gives you an exact consistent tongue, I stroke sand the back of the panels first then run on a feed and leave a bit for sanding. I realize your machines are more accurate in terms of what comes out of your planer still you are making a consistent thickness tongue

    I only have 35 years, but it seems like 50, shit where did 35 years go, there were many 80-90 hours weeks so does that count for more

  4. #34
    both your panel samples look really clean. I get decent results but the cutter I use needs to be reground and ive honed it a few times and used it that way but I was starting with a dull cutter. Im in reno mode now but when there is time will do some samples.

    Martin how deep is your panel slot and how long is the tongue before the panel raise starts, you have x amount of clearance. I do doors the old way with mitered profile and one limitation at times is I cant make the panel slot deeper than the profile, that is not completely true as depending it will be buried in the haunch, it depends on the tennon thickness and if I center it or not. does that baltic not deflect under your fence. If it does at all try metal one shaper I bought had 3/16 in a crude much used fence and it works very well.

    ive never tried that and Martin as far as speed and the math ive never looked at it I look at the cut. I found years ago on moldings that a blanket statement slower speed equalled cleaner cut at some point slower made no difference, not very scientific but on a mickey mouse Molder i have that has a speed control you slow it down and run one pass you can run birdseye maple through and it comes out clean.
    Last edited by Warren Lake; 07-29-2016 at 9:10 AM.

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Ouray Colorado
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    Warren,
    We run from both top and bottom. Bottom gives better dust collection and cutter on top is better for small and narrow panels. We used to have a stroke sander and always ran cutter on top with that.

  6. #36
    thanks never thought about the dust aspect. are you climb cutting in one photo? I stroke the panels as that is all I have sure a good wide belt would be more accurate however ive got lots of time on stroke sanders

  7. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Warren Lake View Post
    Martin how deep is your panel slot and how long is the tongue before the panel raise starts, you have x amount of clearance. I do doors the old way with mitered profile and one limitation at times is I cant make the panel slot longer deeper than the profile, it depends on the tennon thickness and if I center it or not. does that baltic not deflect under your fence. If it does at all try metal one shaper I bought had 3/16 in a crude much used fence and it works very well
    The slot in the sticking is 1/2" deep. The flat in the profile I showed there is 7/16" deep. With a raised panel door, my panel is 1/4" less than the hole, so about a 1/16" of that flat area on the panel is exposed. The total width of the panel profile is 1-5/8".

    If that strip of baltic birch deflects, I haven't noticed it. It's fairly wide, I'd have to measure to be sure, but I think it's about 3" in that area, and it's screwed to the split fence every 6" or so. I also don't run a ton of angle on the power feeder for this since you're not going to be bending a panel to get it to smash straight against the fence like you would with sticking. The edges should be fairly straight after being sized. I kicked around putting a strip of aluminum on there, I'm not sure I'd do steel. Something goes haywire, or you get a bad insert that shatters for no reason, things could get hairy quickly. I would like to go back to the UHMW plastic one. I just haven't had a scrap to do so.





    Holy cows Joe, that is a big honking profile in that mahogany panel. I take it that is for interior doors?

    With the cutter running face down, how do you handle really narrow panels? Like the little ones in a top drawer raised panel where you end up with only 7/8" of flat after the profile has been ran? Or is that specific setup for something that it wouldn't be an issue, like pass doors?

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Ouray Colorado
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    [QUOTE=Martin Wasner;2588441)




    Holy cows Joe, that is a big honking profile in that mahogany panel. I take it that is for interior doors?

    With the cutter running face down, how do you handle really narrow panels? Like the little ones in a top drawer raised panel where you end up with only 7/8" of flat after the profile has been ran? Or is that specific setup for something that it wouldn't be an issue, like pass doors?[/QUOTE]

    Martin, Normally we run on top gor for all the reasons you state. That big 220mm diameter panel cutter is for exterior doors. It can do several different profiles. In that picture we were running wide panels and dust collection is better with cutter on bottom.
    Warren,
    No climb cutting on panels or hardly anything in our shop. I have a lot of experence on stroke sanders. I hated to get rid of my Samco when we got a WBS. Just did not have the space.

  9. #39
    thanks to both of you.

    Joe my stroke sander says Special on it and im pretty sure its Samco, there were two models mine is he lighter one the only difference I saw on the other were the sides were alot heavier. Ive seen that better model barely sell at auctions. I have an italian drum sander big old beast never impressed me but on a good day I can do lots with a stroke sander, you can also do some damage pretty fast. Love the power table and open end after having a Progress before. Its a good way for use to appreciate machines when we step up from one to one better.

    Ive got to do some detail drawings of the panels and slots and tongues etc. of my dimensions an why. I had some door parts here from a carpenter where he made his slots 5/8" or more deep and the rails and styles actually closed in on maple overnight before he assembled them from the tension release of the slot.

  10. #40
    Warren, we used to get orders for 2 and 1/4 inch thick fir doors. The panels were back to back full thickness and the panel groove 5/8 "
    Even though the fir was a dependably good kiln dried product the panel grooves would all close up some so we had to let the parts settle in for at least a day before raising the panels and try the fit in a number of parts to find a fit that would work for all.

  11. #41
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Hatfield, AR
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    1,170
    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Wasner View Post
    I wasn't able to do it until I had a shaper that I could leave set up for panel raising. I always wanted to try setting it up this way, but the change over time would put me in a murderous rage if I had to remake a door for whatever reason.

    The second shaper pic, in the upper right you can just see the end of my chaser board for short stuff.

    Mel is spot on about using wider boards, running the end grain, then ripping it down. I don't really feel there's any danger, but when it's barely in contact with the feeder the part can lift a little and muck up the profile.
    Since I only have a paltry 5hp Grizzly shaper for now, I have a fence for almost every cutter that's a different diameter. I hate hate hate Grizzly's fence system so I only use the dust cover, which I have several mods to improve DC. For every fence, I have an offset jig or board that I can position the needed distance referenced from the miter slot. It greatly reduces my change over time with consistent results. After my shop is built and the panel saw and wide belt are in, I'll be buying a few more shapers and will be selling the Griz.

    I never thought of Mel's idea. I'm definitely gonna be using that method in the future.
    -Lud

  12. #42
    Thank you, Justin. I'm complimented to see it called my idea...but like most things learned in a commercial shop it was given to me under the usual unsaid but always understood " do it like this ,or get out".

  13. #43
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Hatfield, AR
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mel Fulks View Post
    Thank you, Justin. I'm complimented to see it called my idea...but like most things learned in a commercial shop it was given to me under the usual unsaid but always understood " do it like this ,or get out".
    Well, I never worked in any formal cabinet shop. I actually ventured out on my own after just building 3 sets of cabinets (a fool's errand) which has turned into a baptism by fire. This site has saved me numerous times. I had no idea just how ignorant I was to the industry.
    -Lud

  14. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Ludwig View Post
    . I had no idea just how ignorant I was to the industry.
    You'll keep rediscovering that tidbit too. Just when you think you've got an idea dialed in, you'll throw it all away for something better and wonder why you hadn't made the change more quickly. Last year quality shapers and tooling was my "ah ha moment". $20k later we're making kick ass doors quickly and efficiently with very fast change over times and I'm wondering why I didn't do it sooner. (usually cash on hand is the answer)

    Or, you're a hell of a lot smarter than I am.

  15. #45
    And, there's always room for improvement. Either quality, time, or yield

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