honing stones.

[Stewie Simpson]

Just ordered 2 Water Stones via ebay . Anyone have any thoughts on the quality of each of these stones.

Stewie;

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Natural-Shar...MAAOSwiLdV9yxL

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MST-Muller-8...gAAOSwMNxXWv6F

[Derek Cohen]

Stewie, I suspect that the first stone is the same or similar to one I purchased from Carbatec about 10 years ago. They were also sold by Lee Valley for a while. The green colouring and description matches what I have.

Essentially, this is a very hard stone. It does not slurry easily. The finish is possibly around 10000 - could be a less, could be more. Frankly, it cut so slow that I gave up on it. It may work better with O1 steels.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Stewie Simpson]

Thanks for the feedback Derek.

Stewie;

[Warren Mickley]

These are interesting stones. I would say they both need an experienced worker to get the best out of them; they are not stones that a technician can test right out of the box.

I have the Chinese stone, which is available from Woodcraft and some razor merchants. It can deliver a faster coarser cut with slurry or a work toward a slower smoother cut without slurry. I takes experience to get this range. Tim Zowada, a blacksmith who makes razors, has a razor bevels page with 200X pictures of bevels. The page includes Chinese, Spyderco, Arkansas, Shapton and others. The Chinese bevel looks the best.

The German hone is mined in the same area as a Thuringian (Escher) hone, which is well known. I don't know how your stone compares.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

I have a Nagura stone that looks like the black one, and it is a very fine stone that makes a fine slurry. I have often wished I had a large stone like it to try out. That is a really good price. I'm sure there is something that makes it less valuable for some reason or another, but seems well worth the asking price.

[Stewie Simpson]

Warren; appreciate the feedback. I came across the following info on the Thuringian Water Hone.

regards Stewie;


Thuringian Water Hone.


Ultra-fine natural blue water hone in high quality for the final hone of razors, scalpels, knives, edge tools, butcher knives.

Meanwhile, from nearby in the same Thuringian quarry as the Original Escher Stone comes a new supply of black to grey-blue colored raw material.

Like the Original Escher Hone, the new Thuringian material is composed of pure powder-like quartz, embedded in chalk.

The extraordinary fineness and hardness of these stones are not met by any other natural stone — 10,000 to 12,000 grit.

The new Thuringian hone is somewhat harder than the Original Escher material, but has recently yielded towards lighter color, in the direction of the Original Escher, producing a similar high-grit hone. https://www.timbertools.com/Escher-Water-Hone/

[Patrick Chase]

Tim Zowada, a blacksmith who makes razors, has a razor bevels page with 200X pictures of bevels. The page includes Chinese, Spyderco, Arkansas, Shapton and others. The Chinese bevel looks the best.

Interesting (and educational) pictures - thanks!

I have to admit that I always find it jarring when somebody prominently uses Fraktur typeface like that (for his name). While it had a long history before the 20th Century, the more modern connotations are.... interesting.

[Derek Cohen]

Below is David Weaver's post on the UK forum in response to this thread ...

Regards from Perth

Derek


..I see on another forum that you've bought an MST slate and one of the guangxi stones. I have a couple of guangxi stones (have had four total, but still have two) and I had an MST 8x3 stone at one point, because the latter was about $25 (plus shipping) and described as a slightly less good stone than a thuringian/escher.

What I've gathered from the four different chinese hones is that if you get a good one, it will be even and hard. If you get a dud, it will be relatively hard compared to some synthetics, but not be hard enough to avoid self slurrying. The good ones give you a wide range to use, but they are not particularly strong cutters. They are probably a 4k grit stone equivalent or so with a slurry that is not too diulted and cut strongest with a small to moderate amount of slurry without too much water - just enough to keep them from being dry. They cut finest with the slurry cleared off and can match most anything with some touch. Not a good full bevel stone because of the cutting characteristics, but a good stone to use with touch hollow grinding - if not soft. If the stone is soft, you can cut it up for nagura for other natural stones. It will reward experimentation if you're willing to use it the way it wants to be used. I don't think most people would find them to be a favorite stone for woodworking, but the good ones are nice for finishing a straight razor. they do reasonably well with carbon steel carving tools if someone is looking for an alternative to an expensive hard ark, and the edge they create responds very well to a bare leather strop (the abrasive is a shallow groove maker when not slurried, like a coticule or arkansas stone).

The MST "thuringian" is not similar to a razor stone as some very unscrupulous retailers suggest (just because escher labeled stones are very valuable). An escher will finish a razor, the MST "thuringians" won't. They are coarse and softer. Vintage thuringians for razors and vintage labeled eschers are a vastly different thing. The MST stones may make a decent stone to put a hazy finish on a knife, but sharpness will be lacking. I couldn't find a good use for tools, but you may be able to use the stone prior to the chinese hone if you get a good hard chinese hone. They are a no-man's-land hone unless they are paired with something else that needs a stone that is not fast or fine to precede it.

[Stewie Simpson]

Thanks to those who supplied feedback.

regards Stewie;