Carbide Tools for Newby Turner

[Larry Frank]

I have never done much turning but would like to do some. It will be relatively small things like some tool handles and similar.

I would like to try using some of the tools which use carbide inserts and avoid spending a fortune. Can someone recommend which tools and an economical source.

The carbide shapes I see are a square, round, triangle and diamond detailer. Do you need a different holder for each? Which ones are most useful?

I appreciate any recommendations especially the less expensive ones.

[Stan Calow]

Larry, I am not an accomplished turner, just a hobbyist. I love the carbide tools - the same basic three types - and find I use them for maybe 80% of the time turning. I have a whole bunch of regular turning tools as well, some expensive, but I wish I would have started with the carbide tools. I am sure that there's a lot more skill and satisfaction using traditional tools, but for me with limited time, I'd rather get through a project, than make sharpening tools a project in itself.
Two of the carbide tools are Easy Start (the cheaper ones from Easy Wood) and one I believe is from PSI. I got one ES from Amazon and one from local dealer, but price was really the same. I would recommend springing for the whole set at once, and sticking to it so that getting replacement cutters is a no-brainer.

[Tom Wilson66]

Carbide tip turning tools are not hard to make yourself. If you have a grinder and a drill, you can make them. There are a lot of Utube videos on making them. A good source of the carbide tips is Eddie Castlin. he has a lot of videos on turning on Utube, ilncluding some on how to make the tools. For bits, his store, Big Guy Productions has bits at a fairly low price, and he has a good selection. The only tool you may need to buy would be a tap for the screw on the tip.

[brian zawatsky]

It's really difficult to get a nice finish with a carbide tool. They tear the grain instead of slicing it like a gouge does.
I have a couple but only use them for roughing.

[Bill Blasic]

If you are going to go with carbide I would suggest you look at the Hunter tools.

[Tim Boger]

Morning Larry

I enjoy making Ornaments and scaled these tools for my application.

These are for sale if you would like to try out an inexpensive carbide tool.

Tim

2016-07-17 11.36.44 (2).jpg2016-07-17 16.58.47.jpg

[John K Jordan]

It's really difficult to get a nice finish with a carbide tool. They tear the grain instead of slicing it like a gouge does. I have a couple but only use them for roughing.

Larry,

Cheap carbide tools can let you make things, but as Brian mentioned, it is difficult or impossible to make clean cuts with many. The choice to start with them depends somewhat on your long-term goals. I've watched a lot of expert turners at demos and symposiums and never saw one pick up a carbide tool. I do think they have their place, especially the Hunter tools which can make smooth cuts as well as work in a scraping mode, but if you aspire to be an expert turner I recommend learning to use a skew and spindle, bowl, and roughing gouges first. (This is certainly not the easiest way to start and you do have to learn to sharpen.) Profeciency with these will let you make things limeted only by your imagination, not by your tools. I realize this is not a popular viewpoint but I've seen beginners start with and stick with simple carbide tools and never progress.

I personally bought and tried several carbide tools and eventually gave them away, all except my Hunter tools. (The Osprey and Hercules tools, in particular, will let you make extremely clean cuts in the "bevel-rubbing" mode.) It would be impossible to turn many of the things I like to make with without the clean cuts of traditional tools. A sharp skew is my favorite tool!

Consider getting a few good tools, such as those made by Doug Thompson and others. Take some classes, find a mentor, learn to sharpen. A few years from now I suspect you will be glad you did.

You might watch some turners you admire and see what kind of tools they use; talk to them and find out why. Watch some others who turn primarily with carbide tools and see if that is better for you.

JKJ

[Dok Yager]

Larry I started with and still have many large and small carbide tools.I still use them all the time. I have many regular tools as well and use both regularly. I believe that Good carbide tips and good carbide tools do a fine job as long as you can be patient and use a deft touch once past the original rough out stage. Be careful of some of the carbides that have a stepped face on the carbide! I would recommend you do Not try these until you have many,many hours of turning as they can catch and tear out large chunks if not very careful in your approach.

[Aaron Craven]

Larry,

Cheap carbide tools can let you make things, but as Brian mentioned, it is difficult or impossible to make clean cuts with many. The choice to start with them depends somewhat on your long-term goals. I've watched a lot of expert turners at demos and symposiums and never saw one pick up a carbide tool. I do think they have their place, especially the Hunter tools which can make smooth cuts as well as work in a scraping mode, but if you aspire to be an expert turner I recommend learning to use a skew and spindle, bowl, and roughing gouges first. (This is certainly not the easiest way to start and you do have to learn to sharpen.) Profeciency with these will let you make things limeted only by your imagination, not by your tools. I realize this is not a popular viewpoint but I've seen beginners start with and stick with simple carbide tools and never progress.

I personally bought and tried several carbide tools and eventually gave them away, all except my Hunter tools. (The Osprey and Hercules tools, in particular, will let you make extremely clean cuts in the "bevel-rubbing" mode.) It would be impossible to turn many of the things I like to make with without the clean cuts of traditional tools. A sharp skew is my favorite tool!

Consider getting a few good tools, such as those made by Doug Thompson and others. Take some classes, find a mentor, learn to sharpen. A few years from now I suspect you will be glad you did.

You might watch some turners you admire and see what kind of tools they use; talk to them and find out why. Watch some others who turn primarily with carbide tools and see if that is better for you.

JKJ

Not sure if this viewpoint is "popular" or not, but for the most part I agree with it. I'm fairly new to turning (been serious about it for maybe a year and a half or so), but I've come to appreciate the advantages of traditional tools over carbide. To that I'll add two things:

1) Traditional tools (especially the skew) have a learning curve, but it's not as steep as it sounds, and the learning process is massively enjoyable for the most part; if it all sounds daunting, it's not.

2) Everyone has their preferences. Don't let anyone here (or anywhere else) sway you towards one tool or another. In fact, I suggest you don't prejudice yourself against any particular type of tool. Become competent in all of them that interest you and then decide what you like.

Have fun, be safe, and welcome to the vortex!

p.s. - +1 on Cap'n Eddie and making your own tools if you have the equipment and expertise. I've never made any, but my father-in-law has and I'd put them up against any retail carbide.

[Doug Rasmussen]

My experience with carbide wood turning tools may be a little different the than the usual here. Looking at the current offerings at Woodcraft and Rockler I see carbide inserts with a neutral rake (flat topped), more scrapers than a shearing tool. These make me wonder why nobody seems to offer free cutting positive rake inserts for their tools.

In a former business I had several automatic wood lathes where we used mostly carbide inserts that peeled off nice curls.

When I've asked why the scraper configuration and not a free cutting shear type insert I usually get a deer-in-the-headlights look. One person did tell me the high positive inserts were too aggressive for hand turning. By "aggressive" I assume he meant they couldn't be easily controlled and would have a tendency to grab and dig in.

The attached picture shows a typical high positive insert. These are designed primarily for aluminum and plastic cutting, and work well in wood. They're available in all common shapes and sizes. The cutting edges are honed literally razor sharp, far sharper than you can grind a steel tool. The one shown would be a VCGTnn.nn type. The "VC" refers to diamond shape, the "GT" designates high positive cutting edge, the "nn.nn" would be size and nose radius configuration.

[brian zawatsky]

That's very interesting. So I guess you would just need a tool to hold it that would allow you to rub the bevel on the outside edge of the insert to keep it from catching? Do you make your own? Or have a source for something like that? I'll try anything once, its part of my problem lol

[Justin Stephen]

I've watched a lot of expert turners at demos and symposiums and never saw one pick up a carbide tool.

To be fair, most of these folks were turning with "traditional" tools for many years before the modern crop of carbide tools were readily available/popular. Some of these folks also have a vested financial interest in certain tools as well so they are going to use what is sold with their names on them.

I was still a fairly new turner when the EWT tools stormed the market but I had already progressed well on my way towards some reasonable degree of bowl gouge mastery by then. That said, I did go out and buy one of the full-sized "easy rougher" and a few weeks later an "easy finisher" and tried to put them to use, mostly for roughing green wood. I found pretty quickly that I could actually do a faster, less messy job roughing with a bowl gouge so they ended up in a drawer gathering dust for the most part. I would full out the "finisher" once in awhile for a very specific scrape because of the convenient shape of the bit.

The work I do now is virtually 100% from large kiln-dried slabs or glue-ups, sometimes with wood that is well up there on the Janka scale. I discovered pretty recently that the ol' "easy rougher" or equivalent is actually a bit of a blessing when truing up the top and bottom of kiln-dried blanks (but not the edge) and, with some of the extra-hard specimens, pretty darn nice for doing the overall shaping of the piece as well. The piece I just finished turning was an 18" Jatoba platter. I decided to do a little experiment and turn the entire thing without the use of a bowl gouge at all. I used a carbide tool for shaping and then made judicious use of shear and negative rake scraping to do all the finishing cuts. I probably spent just a smidge longer sanding the final product than normal and ended up with a piece that I am completely happy with in terms of surface quality and my Thompson Vs never left the shelf. It was also substantially "lower stress" turning since I wasn't constantly making trips back and forth to the grinder to do battle with the very hard Jatoba with a bowl gouge.

[John Grace]

What's a name brand for those types of cutters? thanks...

[Doug Rasmussen]

What's a name brand for those types of cutters? thanks...

About all the players in industrial carbide offer the GT type inserts. Amazon lists some.

In years past it was typical to only sell in packs of five or ten. Since prices have gone up so much many dealers will sell in single quantities now. Check with a local industrial tooling distributor, you might find a nearby source.

[Kyle Iwamoto]

I agree with Justin, that YOU should make the decision to use carbides as your primary go to tools, or the traditional tools. My $0.02 would be to get in contact with a club, and see if you can try some gouges, see if you like to use them. I have several carbides, and I prefer the Hunter carbides. I'm an OLD traditional tool user. I do like carbides, but thay are not my go to tools. One of our club's pro turners went to almost exclusively using carbides, so saying you cant get a good cut is not a true statement..... You may have to sand a bit more, it's all in the skill of the user.
Oh yeah, all carbides are not created equal. Some are better than others, and the other side is also true, some are no good to cut wood.