Lower built-in cabinet top thickness (a built thread?)

[Wakahisa Shinta]

I finally have some time to tackle a built-in project that was conceived a while ago. Last weekend I built the lower cabs and base, cut out the necessary holes for the outlets and AV equipment cables access. This weekend is to work on the upper hutch cabinets and the lower cabs' top. This is a painted project, white. I am using birch plywood and poplar for trim and FF. The lower cabs' tops (x2) are captured between 3 walls, so I will have to make a template. I had plan to use two layers of 3/4 plywood, then edge them with 1 1/2"-wide strip of poplar. Now, is doubling up the top necessary? Or just one 3/4" plywood layer is enough?

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[Hoang N Nguyen]

I did mine with just one layer of 3/4" ply and it's been fine. Mine is 6' wide and goes up 9' to the ceiling.

[Brian Tymchak]

Assuming your upper cabinet is the same width as the bottom and that it will have a center divider as your bottom cabinet, then the load in the upper cabinets will transfer to your vertical panels in the base. The top will not carry much load at all. So, IMHO, 3/4" is fine. If you want the illusion of a thicker top for the base, you can just double up at the edge and then trim. or you may not even have to double up on the plywood. Just attach the wider trim to the single ply edge.

[Thomas L. Miller]

Wakahisa,
I built 2 40" wind AV cabinets using the same type of construction. I used 3/4" ply for the tops. I even stood on them while I installed the bookcases on the top. The bookcases are as wide as the cabinets and go to the 9' ceiling. No problems. The weight of the bookcases is directed through the sides of the cabinets as Brian mentioned. As an aside, I installed 2 120mm fans hooked to a thermocouple controller to keep the AV equipment cool behind closed doors. One fan is set to exhaust and the other brings in outside (the cabinet) air. It's amazing how that stuff heats up behind closed doors.
Tom

[Jim Becker]

You don't likely need two layers for strength, but you might want to put strips of material on the underside to increase the apparent thickness for proportion. Just put those strips where they will rest on the lower cabinets including any cross members and things will be supported just fine.

[Rich Engelhardt]

You don't likely need two layers for strength, but you might want to put strips of material on the underside to increase the apparent thickness for proportion

That right there....

All the old original 1950's era cabinets we pull out when we do a rehab use a single 3/4" sheet with additional 3/4" blocks at points around the perimeter to give the illusion of extra thickness.

[Wakahisa Shinta]

I finally have some time to get back into the shop yesterday and to make some progress on this built-in project. The cabs and hutches are dry fitting. Next step is to decide on the sizes for the face frame. You can see one of the pictures, I clamp a strip of 3/4" poplar to the cabs to check the visual appearance. I think it's too thick.

What is the typical reveal between FF and side of cabinet? 1/4"? 3/8"? 1/2"?

It's winter here, so no more spraying outside. I am tempted to assemble everything in place, then brush/roll with BM Advance.

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[Jim Becker]

I'm not sure I understand your question about the "reveal between FF and side of cabinet" in conjunction with a built-in. You'll scribe to the wall and generally flush with the inside of the opening unless you want the face frames to overlap the opening for some reason.

3/4" or similar would typically be "normal" for face frame thickness, BTW.

[Wakahisa Shinta]

Jim,

"reveal" = overlap the opening of the carcass. Making the FF flush with the opening did not occur to me. Hmmm...

In my post, the thickness of the FF refers to the "width" dimension of the FF, which faces the woodworker in these pictures. My FF material is dimensioned to 3/4" thick. I am deciding on the width of the FF before ripping the poplar planks.

[Jim Becker]

Terminology can be so much fun... The dimensions of the "face" of the face frame is kind of an exercise in proportion. I generally end up with about 2" stiles (which is consistent with about where you'll end up. But the rails are "more fun" and not necessarily the same width. The rail just under the counter is often narrower because it will appear wider visually because of the viewing angle combined with the thickness of the cabinet top. I generally drop to about an inch and a half there. Quite often all of the rails will be narrower than stiles for this reason. Whether you use inset or overlay doors/drawers also will affect these dimensions.

[Wakahisa Shinta]

After a few hours here and there, I am finished with the the installation. Still need to fill the nail holes, final sanding, then paint. I decided to install everything before painting. This is my first built-in project. It has been a lot of fun. There will be a lot more storage space once the adjustable shelves go up. While installing the FF, I wished I had made a shooting board to more precisely fit the FF components. It would have made things a bit easier compared to taking thin shavings with a miter saw. I also need a more sturdy compass; the one I have isn't made for shop use.

One of my favorite thing to do was hand planing the FF stiles to the scribe lines. It was just fun to use my hand plane, which is a restoration from a very inexpensive garage-sale acquisition.

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[Jim Becker]

Beautiful job!!! Yes, the "art of scribing" is a fun thing, too.

Be sure you choose a paint that's non-blocking so that things don't stick to the shelving. A 100% acrylic water borne (like SW ProClassic) or an oil based enamel is best for that. 'Borg paint isn't going to cut it in that respect, so go to a real paint store.