What You Should Be Learning

[Pat Barry]

Material selection is highly important in order to serve the function required and for optimal appearance. For example, I used to take great trouble to select wood for table tops. I would spend a lot of time laying out pieces side by side in order to orient the boards for best appearance and best grain match. Shuffling the order of the boards, flipping them end for end and top to bottom, getting them arranged just so. Then I would come back a day or two later and see if I liked the way it looked. FInally, I would perform the glue-up and then process the top for finishing. The thing is, my methods back in the day were built around the tools I used and one important tool was my random orbit sander. I loved that tool as it helped overcome many issues with the wood and get a nice finish as I sanded through the grits from 80 to 120 to 150 to 180 to sometimes 220. Now as I do more hand tool work with planes I realize that I needed to also consider the direction that worked best for planing and to account for this in my lay up because this is what makes the planing process way simpler. Having eh grain all oriented in the same direction basically eliminates tear-out potential and therefore makes the entire planing process so much simpler. Of course, even with optimal grain matching you sometimes still can get tear-out, but accounting for the grain direction and planing with the grain and not against it makes planing so much more satisfying and less stressful.

[Warren Weckesser]

George, back in the very first post, you said "I recommend studying OLD books on woodworking,some of which have been re printed." Can you recommend specific titles?

[Brian Holcombe]

Pat,

That has been an obsession of mine as well, recently doing my best to minimize grain runout. Often grain runout makes for unpredictable results when working with a chisel, so I've been going to greater lengths than usual to eliminate it.

My personal crusade in that regard has altered my perspective. I still find many types of wood grain to be beautiful but I've come to a certain appreciation of vertical grain and rift/quarter orientation. It seems that it takes a lot of consideration on the part of the sawyer to minimize runout and further consideration in the rough cuts and part layout, and finally a slight consideration in the dimensioning process.

[Mel Fulks]

It seems strange that some who say the old rules don't have merit are sometimes the ones who say something like, "I don't like these maple cabinets, dark woods are in now". If they bought them they might be less vehement ...but just as determined to buy something else. Ive seen houses that had 20 different sized windows,just on the front facade which had a total of 21 windows! ....advertised as "fine traditional home". That's a lie ,not a difference in taste. In the old books formal rooms had specific proportions that varied according to author ,but they were all FORMAL in that they were symmetrical. A room is not formal because "it's got that very fine reclining chair". One thing a thread like this does accomplish is some challenge to totally "gotta stir the pot to make some money" tastemakers.

[george wilson]

I agree,Mel. The latest thing seems to be designing a house that has so many gables, VERY out of symmetry and of all sizes,it seems like the designer is trying to make a single house look like a whole village. It has gotten pretty ridiculous. It must be hard on the roofers!!

Warren,I am in pain and on pain killers,and can't think of an old book author except for Hasluck right now. I have read a number of them,though. The ones where the woodworker is wearing a suit and tie at the workbench!!

[Patrick Chase]

2:3 and 3:5 are part of the Fibonacci sequence, which is the sequence of the golden ratio.

3:4 is interesting since a right triangle with sides of 3 & 4 will have a hypotenuse of 5.

jtk

The Fibonacci sequence isn't "the sequence of the golden ratio". It's a sequence that has the property that the ratio of consecutive terms converges to but never equals the golden ratio as it approaches infinity. 2:3 and 3:5 are very early term-pairs in the sequence and are nowhere near converging, and their link to the golden ratio is tortured at best.

[george wilson]

I guess you'd better re write Google. It seems full of mistakes. Every time I seek medical advice,even on the most seemingly reliable source,doctors tell me that the info is incorrect.

Pat: I have a broken foot and don't want to walk out to the shop and get a dial caliper and other things. Why don't you draw for us and post a few rectangles constructed with some of the "off ratio" Fibonacci numbers,compared with a golden mean rectangle? It might be possible that he felt that the numbers he got were close enough to the golden mean to still make a pleasing rectangle.

[Frederick Skelly]

"......I tire of arguing with those who discount it. It exists,and was and is used,period."

This is really the point I was making. The minute there's a dissenting opinion, you start using words like "attacking" and "destroying" and "arguing". Kees is certainly not arguing, he is simply and respectfully presenting a different opinion.
98% of the posters in this thread have agreed with you. Does everyone have to agree?

You said you were 75 years old, is this the way you act when someone disagrees or sees things differently?
I hope not. Seems like a long time spent making sure everyone sees things your way.

Other than that it's an interesting thread and I've enjoyed reading it.

George, I say again as myself and others have said before - thanks for hanging out here and teaching us. Another GREAT thread. Lots of information, lots of viewpoints.

Myself? I'll probably never develop the eye someone trained in design has. But I use the golden ratio and I use George Walker's book. When I use either, my projects look noticeably better.

Keep the good ideas coming guys. This is all helpful to this "design novitiate".

Fred

[Curt Putnam]

Photography is one of the more visual arts and the "rules" of composition include the golden spiral, ratio and square. It also comes up in books of furniture design. I have not studied, nor will I in the near future but I accept, lacking evidence to the contrary, that pieces built upon the golden ratio will look just fine.

[Prashun Patel]

this thread has run its course. I hope others have found it as thought provoking as have i.

[george wilson]

Thank you,Prashun. Go ahead and lock it please.