Air conditioning unit and the Cost of freon?

[dennis thompson]

My air conditioning wasn't working very well, it could only get the first floor down to 77 degrees. The air conditioning guy came and said that it was frozen. It seems because of the low freon it just kept running and that caused it to freeze up. So he shut of the cooling and is just running the fan over the weeked to unfreeze it and will come back on Monday to add the freon. So my questions are:
-the freon will cost $185 for the first pound and $123 for each pound thereafter, there is no way to tell how quickly the freon will leak out again, a week? A month? A year? It could take up to 10 pounds so we could easily be talking upwards of $1,000.
The air conditioning unit is 10 years old, should I just replace the unit or add the freon? Does that seem like a reasonable price for the freon?
I am getting an estimate to replace the unit on Monday and I'm sure it won't be cheap but it will be a more efficient unit.
Any thoughts on which brands are the best?
Anyone else in New Jersey or the northeast replaced a central air conditioning unit lately, cost?
thanks

[Frederick Skelly]

Hi Dennis.
Here's my layman understanding of things. I'm sure more knowlegable guys will chime in, if needed.

There are two types of freon and the older type is no longer made, so it's expensive. Neighbor was paying upwards of $90/pound. I haven't heard of people paying $185, but that may be a supply/demand thing in your area. I don't know if the old type freon is what your 10 year old unit uses or not. I don't recall when they changed to the newer type.

As I understand it, buying a new unit may or may not fix the leak. For example, some people have a type of AC that is two separate units - one outside and one inside. In such a system, you could be leaking inside or outside. If you only replace the outside unit and the leak is in the inside, it will eventually leak out again. So, if possible, they need to try to find that leak. That will cost a few hundred more dollars.

Another approach is to fill it up and watch it a while to see how fast it leaks out. My neighbor used to have the guy come once a year and put in a pound. He got another 3 years out of it that way. But again, that may not work for you.

Replacing the entire system (inside and outside parts) can give you sticker shock, depending on the brand you buy and how efficient it is. Again, the neighbor bought some high end unit. He claims he's seen a 25% reduction in his electric bill because it's so good compared to the ancient one he replaced.

Good luck,
Fred

[Michael Dye]

R22 has gotten very expensive. Here in OKC, a 30 pound jug will set a contractor back over $500. And that's wholesale pricing, nothing you can get. That being said, look at finding the leak. I have seen something as simple as a loose schrader valve, and as bad as a dog using the condenser unit as a bathroom, creating a corrosion problem that just destroys the condenser coil. If you are lucky enough to have the loose schrader valve, have your contractor replace the R22 with R407c. It is a drop-in refrigerant and is much cheaper.

If replacement is your only option, look at Amana. They have the best warranty and, in my opinion, are the best value. Good luck.

[George Bokros]

I recommend finding the leak. if it is the evaporator, the condenser or the compressor that is leaking replace the entire system, more cost effective. A new complete unit will be more efficient for sure and pay for itself in the long run. I would never add refrigerant without finding out where it is leaking. IMHO that is like throwing away money.

I put in a new Trane HVAC in 2012 not cheap but has performed well for four years. My old HVAC system was 13 yrs old at the time and the igniter for the heat was not shutting off after the burner was lit and the repair was estimate to be $800+ so I decided not to put that much in a 13 yr old system when a more efficient system would pay off in the long run.

[Robert Engel]

You have to find the leak first.

Unfortunately that means filling with freon.

It was one reason I replaced a unit.

I have another unit in a commercial building that takes 8 lbs I'll replace it if it ever starts leaking.

[Stan Calow]

This is why HVAC is the only thing for which I will buy extended service warranties. Without it, as soon as there is a leak the repairmen will want to replace the whole thing rather than find and fix the leak.

[Mike Henderson]

Wow, I had no idea R-22 was that expensive. Many years ago, I bought a 30# bottle so that I could service my own AC. Don't remember what I paid but it wasn't much. It's still half full.

In your situation, I might change out the unit and get one with a higher SEER and new style refrigerant. You probably have a 10 to 13 SEER unit. A 16 to 18 SEER unit will save you money on your electricity.

Mike

[Jon Nuckles]

Cost considerations aside, the reason the R22 is being phased out is that it contributes to depletion of the ozone layer and, to a much larger extent, contributes to global warming. Seems irresponsible to add it to a system you suspect is leaking.

[David T gray]

Cost considerations aside, the reason the R22 is being phased out is that it contributes to depletion of the ozone layer and, to a much larger extent, contributes to global warming. Seems irresponsible to add it to a system you suspect is leaking.

the patent ran out so lobbyest lobbyed to have it phased out b/c of global warming non sense , which dive the price up But a savior steps in and develops a new product to replace r22 but the new product is still 2-4 times more expensive then r22 was before it was phased out but still half as expensive as the new phased out r22 every one rejoices as capitalism has prevailed and once again screwed the public. i have a house on the beach in mexico that had a bad ac last year had a guy come out costs me $35 to get it recharged another 100 to fix the leak i asked him the price of r22 he paid 55$ for 30lb. another fun one. oil prices go look at what year oil speculation became legal and find a graph of oil prices quite the correlation.

[Matt Meiser]

Our R22 condenser was damaged beyond repair by a hail storm last year. Replacement with another R22 unit and recharge was about $2400 which is what the insurance authorized. We paid another $800 out of pocket and got a new A-coil, lineset and condenser with the new refrigerant. Its also something like 30% more efficient. I think we have a 3 ton system but I'd have to check to be sure.

[Mike Henderson]

the patent ran out so lobbyest lobbyed to have it phased out b/c of global warming non sense , which dive the price up But a savior steps in and develops a new product to replace r22 but the new product is still 2-4 times more expensive then r22 was before it was phased out but still half as expensive as the new phased out r22 every one rejoices as capitalism has prevailed and once again screwed the public. i have a house on the beach in mexico that had a bad ac last year had a guy come out costs me $35 to get it recharged another 100 to fix the leak i asked him the price of r22 he paid 55$ for 30lb. another fun one. oil prices go look at what year oil speculation became legal and find a graph of oil prices quite the correlation.

Any patents on Freon (a brand name) type refrigerants ran out a LONG time ago. See here for a discussion.

The US banned certain refrigerants (first I knew of was R-12, now R-22) because of their effect on the ozone layer. Not all countries have banned those refrigerants, and some who have banned them do not enforce the ban. Last time I looked, China was still making both R-12 and R-22 and people were trying to sneak it into the US by declaring it as something else - because of the tremendous markup. Your experience in Mexico, I suspect, may be because Mexico has not banned those refrigerants or does not enforce the ban. If they weren't banned in the US, they'd be pretty cheap here, also.

Mike

[George Bokros]

You have to find the leak first.

Unfortunately that means filling with freon.

It was one reason I replaced a unit.

I have another unit in a commercial building that takes 8 lbs I'll replace it if it ever starts leaking.

I don't believe they fill the unit with refrigerant to find the leak.

[Mike Henderson]

I don't believe they fill the unit with refrigerant to find the leak.

I'm going from really old memory here, but I believe the AC repair people have very sensitive freon detectors that can detect very small leaks.

Mike

[Mark Blatter]

Every time I have had a leak in my car A/C, they will it with coolant, plus a dye so they can find the leak. Could be different with a house A/C unit, but I suspect not.

[Bob Bouis]

Finding and repairing leaks is just about the least profitable thing the A/C guys do, so none of them want to do it. They'd much rather sell you freon at ten times what they paid for it, because you'll need it again in a year (or a new unit with a 750% markup for the six man hours it takes to install it).

It's borderline criminal, if you ask me. But what're you going to do?

ETA: maybe I'm jaded because last time I was in this situation, the guy literally tried to put his thumb on the scale while selling me freon.