jumping in the vortex

[Chance Raser]

Hello everyone. I have been lurking here and other forums for a while. I have an itch to start turning, when i have an itch they dont go away.

Last time i turned anything was in high school, 16 years ago. quick background as to why/how i make decisions. i wanted to get into rock crawling, so i bought a stock '91 jeep. the natural progression was to lift a little, bigger tires, then repeat. I did the research and found the best path to get from stock to what i ultimately wanted, an automatic '91 cherokee on 35's with d44s locked front and rear. Then i built it, all of it. I am a diy just like everyone here. I have to try it myself, and learn that i cant do it before i will pay someone else. i even installed carpet in two rooms at my house ONCE, never again. I have tackled crown molding (6" inside and outside corners) and would do it again. numerous other home improvements etc. From my jeep build, i have pretty much anything i need for metal working.

so back to the point. i have a very limited budget right now, roughly $600, to get into this. I have done so many searches on this and other forums i feel i am almost prepared. just some questions.

my main goal of a lathe is bowls/vessels. i am super interested in segmented (BFAB), tangential and HFs. HFs are a ways away.

i intend on checking out the local turning club, potentially getting some sharpening pointers, tool use pointers etc.

questions are underlined for quick skimming.

i just (yesterday) got an old 1/2 HP craftsman lathe 113.12540, it came mounted on a bench with 8 tools for $40. Below is current my purchasing plan (which i know will well exceed the $600 budget of now). I need to get an order of purchase, what i shouldnt skimp on because i dont like incremental/repurchase items.

i didnt intend on an incremental lathe, but i couldn't pass up for $40 with tools to learn on. i am very seriously considering turning this into a dedicated disk sander when i move on to a nicer lathe. is 1/2 hp enough for a 12" disk sander?

my plan is to learn the tools via spindle turning then move to bowls.

my current order of purchases:
lathe
8" grinder and wheels
parts to build wolverine jig
safety gear
basic stuff, live center, bowl mount plate, WOOD
Band saw
table saw
nice table saw blade
parts to build normal sled
parts to build wedge sled
Nova G3 turning chuck
parts to build sanding disk/pad for lathe
clamps, lots and lots of clamps.
thickness planer
180 grit CBN wheel

What do i have out of order?

What am i missing?

Initially I was going to hold out for a decent middle of the road lathe (by middle of the road i am specifically referring to swing, as i want to ulitmately do large bowls 16", 18", 20" etc. no real interest in spindle turning right now, so middle of the road was reputable variable speed with 12" swing).

So immediately i need a grinder to sharpen the slightly messed up 8 tools i got with the lathe. Along the lines on not wanting incremental purchases i think buying my hopeful "final" grinder right now is the right thing to do. so my first real question:
Which grinder?
i can get a $40 8" grinder on craiglist any day. or
A rikon 80-808?
or i am very tempted to call about this (dayton 8" for $250):
http://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/tls/5666916464.html
I cant find alot of info on the daytons. is it worth $250?

my next main question:
a bandsaw first or a tables saw. this is a two part question. When i was still planning on my jeep built and before i had done enough research i made the novice mistake of buying a 140amp welder before i really new what i wanted/needed. i ended up selling it and getting a nice Lincoln 180. So, a band saw or a table saw first? Then, can i get by with a cheap bandsaw or a cheap table saw for a LONG time? ive read numerous that a nice sled (segeasy) almost takes care of a cheap table saw. I found a Grizzly 14" G0555LX for $300. good buy? bandsaw or tablesaw first? Craigslist here has numerous $100 12" craftsman bandsaws and $100 10" ryobi tablesaws.

somewhere in the middle of that list i am going to have to add "new lathe". What i was/am really looking at was the delta 46-460 based on everyones reviews. also somewhere in that list i need to add "nice lathe tools" once i learn how to properly sharpen and use the tools.

jointer or planer first?
can i get by with a cheap jointer or a cheap planer?
Does a large disk sander take care of the planer for segmented bowls?
thickness planers, i could get one on craigslist tomorrow for $100. I dont know what i need to look for in one of these.

is this all too ambitious, too naive, just wrong? any criticism/ feedback welcome. if im all F-ed up, tell me.

Thanks for all the help.

Sorry for the long into/rant/questions/lentgthy first post etc.

[John Grace]

Welcome to turning. First thought first...slow down there a bit or you'll end up purchasing a whole lot of tools you'll never use. I've finally stopped buying tools in search of a task...let the job in front of you dictate what you get. If you're starting to turn then you've already started. After the lathe itself, a chuck, three to five turning tools, and a lot of patience and willingness to learn. As for big tools...the 2nd most used tool in my shop after the lathe and all small hand tools that support it is my bandsaw. You'll find a good bandsaw indispensable towards the over-all hobby. Table saws, planers, and jointers all have their place in flatwork but you may want to consider waiting five or six months after you get yourself settled into turning. Many folks start buying all kinds of things and then realize they'd rather not do any 'flat work' and just want to focus on turning...sometimes the other way around.

With respects to specific models suggest you approach it from the end product point of view. What size of turning do you see yourself most likely doing...check out the bowls in your kitchen as reference points. The Delta you referenced is a good table top lathe but it's mostly used for pens and other small items. For bowls in the six to twelve inch range you're looking at a lathe with at least a 1 HP motor. You'll find some new Grizzly's and Teknatool's that fit that bill and work well. If you're willing to wait, however, each manufacturer has a yearly sale as well as Woodcrafter's who sell Teknatool, Laguna, and others. If you're OK with the concept and again patient, you'll eventually see and find really good values via Craig's List.

The above's a start and no two turner woodworker's are the same...good luck.

[Brian Kent]

Quick question. Since you mentioned Phoenix, is that where you live?

[Chance Raser]

Yeah, West Phoenix, Litchfield park

[Chance Raser]

John thanks for the response and thoughts. I re-read my post, it did sound like I'm in a hurry. But that's not really the case. It took me more than a month to simply buy the $40 craftsman. I'm not going to go buy everything on my list, actually that's the main purpose of my post, what first and what to spend high on. What to wait a while before buying.

I am patient and will continue to scour craigslist for a better lathe. Now that I have something I would think I can wait even longer.

Sounds like that's 1 vote for bandsaw vs tablesaw.

[Chance Raser]

I should also mention that I know I will end up doing segmented bowls as that is what really started the itch. That is what it will take to satisfy the itch. All I need is time, practice and the right equipment...

[Thomas Canfield]

I should also mention that I know I will end up doing segmented bowls as that is what really started the itch. That is what it will take to satisfy the itch. All I need is time, practice and the right equipment...

Chance - You said a lot in this statement. The time to practice is very important, and to learn the sharpening and cutting techniques that will be critical when going to segmented work. Myself, I do not do the segmented work and that to me is an additional skill and equipment. I would like to suggest to you to try turning bowls out o 2x6 construction lumber (pick up free scraps from houses under construction) to learn the tool movement to get clean cuts and also learning to get really sharp tools. You can see improvement fairly fast doing repetitive pieces and you don't have to worry about ruining expensive wood. Cut some pieces into sections to get a good look at wall thickness. Have fun. Welcome to vortex.

[Roger Chandler]

Related to the bandsaw issue.......the bandsaw is much more versatile for turners than a tablesaw, unless segmenting is the big thing you are after. I have that Grizzly G0555LX model. That is a fine 14" class saw. Does it come with a riser kit? If it is in good shape $300 is a super price.

[Brice Rogers]

1/2 HP for a 12" disk sander? Yes, it'll work. I have an old 9" Craftsman lathe with an outboard 10" disk and am currently using it for sanding. Could I push so hard on the disk that I might be able to get the motor to stall? Perhaps, but that hasn't happened in the past 3 to 5 years of normal use. So, I'd say that it would work fine.

[Dwight Rutherford]

Contact "Arizona Woodturners Assoc." located in Phoenix. Members there can help you decide what to get. You can take advantage of their mentoring program and get hands on help. Good place to get used gear also.

[Tom Brouillette]

My $.02, move the CBN wheel up on your list. Having a sharpening jig and CBN wheel will impact everything you do from that point forward. You need repeatability in sharpening your tools, and having fresh, properly sharpened tools can turn frustration into pure elation. At least it did for me.

[John K Jordan]

I like to see someone planning instead of just buying!

For turning: you can't turn wood if you can't sharpen. A sharpening setup should be the first thing to get with the lathe and tools.

Second would be a chuck which solves many problems and allows much flexibility. One with the insert you can change when moving to a bigger lathe is the best.

If you can stand it, don't buy anything else until you get some turning experience. Even a starter lathe with cheap tools and a beater grinder is far, far better equipment than most of the world had in the history of woodturning!

A bandsaw would be next on my list. It is the most used power tool in my shop. For turning it makes preparing wood easier and cheaper. People who don't have a bandsaw sometimes come to my shop. I have several and for me the most useful is an 18" saw. Mine is a Rikon but the brand is not as important as the capacity.

Also, join a club. (Sorry if you mentioned this; I didn't have time to read all of your post. I'm late feeding the llamas and tending the baby peacocks and guineas this morning.)

JKJ

[Don Orr]

JKJ has the right track for you. Heed his advice, it comes from experience and intelligence.

[Jamie Straw]

If you decide to get a CBN wheel, you can save $ by buying aluminum wheel instead of steel. But be wary of super deals you hear about on eBay etc. I was wary of aluminum wheels, but took recommendation of a couple of professional turners to check out Ken Rizza's wheels, bought a 180 ($149). CBNs are quite "efficient" and after using mine for a couple of months, I think a 300 would have been fine. I have a 60-grit pink wheel on the other side.

[Doug Rasmussen]

Chance,

Given your experience in building things, have you considered building a bowl lathe?

A bowl lathe is basically very simple. A couple pillow blocks and a shaft for a spindle. A metal lathe and welder will help. The lathe framework could be made primarily of wood.

Google on "build a bowl turning wood lathe". Lots of info there.

Prior to the "super" lathes like Oneway, Robust, PM, etc, etc there weren't many choices in commercially available large bowl lathes so shop building was about the only option. Over the years I can recall at least three shop made bowl lathes being used by professional turning shops, one was in a metal spinning shop.

If in your local area you have access to scrap yards and surplus outfits you might be able to pull it off with your $600 budget.