Page 5 of 10 FirstFirst 123456789 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 75 of 137

Thread: New Lee Valley Mortise Chisels

  1. #61
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Poughkeepsie, NY
    Posts
    207
    Quote Originally Posted by Kees Heiden View Post
    ... The Pfeill gouges actually look a lot like the old English chisels. But when they make chisels themselves, they look completely different! No idea why really.
    Look closer at the Pfeil catalogue. They make #1 sweep carving chisels, single bevel, double bevel and skew, although they are in a firmer chisel style. I don't know what the larger sizes are like, but I have an 8mm skew, 5mm skew and 3mm single bevel. The 8mm skew is thinner than my 6mm Pfeil bench chisel.

  2. #62
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Perth, Australia
    Posts
    9,469
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Radtke View Post
    Has anyone taken a picture of how trapezoidale the Vertias chisels taper? Or can be be compared to a RI or Narex? I'm ready to upgrade my most-used Narex models and was completely ready to swing for RI, and now this happened. I've really come to appreciate the shape and I'm not ready to give it up...
    A photo will note show the level of trapezoidism. It needs to be measured. But I have those figures

    What complicates this measurement is that the blades are different depths ...





    Measure the thickness at the back of the blade and measure again at the face of the blade, both taken behind the primary bevel, and then take the difference of the two measurements:

    RI = 0.11mm (6.11 - 6.00mm)
    Ward = 0.22mm (6.42 - 6.20mm)
    Veritas = 0.96mm (6.46 - 5.50mm)

    These measurements were taken with a digital calliper.

    It looks like the Veritas has the most taper, however it is also the widest blade, so will show the greatest difference in end measurements. How wide are the blades? Measurements taken behind the primary bevel and at the start of the bolster ...

    RI = 11mm front; 18mm rear
    Ward = 12mm front; 18mm rear
    Veritas = 14mm front; 17mm rear

    The other photo of relevance is the backs of the Veritas and RI. Not the sharp lands of the Veritas and the rounded back of the RI. The sharp lands aid in a clean cut.



    Regards from Perth

    Derek

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by John Schtrumpf View Post
    Look closer at the Pfeil catalogue. They make #1 sweep carving chisels, single bevel, double bevel and skew, although they are in a firmer chisel style. I don't know what the larger sizes are like, but I have an 8mm skew, 5mm skew and 3mm single bevel. The 8mm skew is thinner than my 6mm Pfeil bench chisel.
    You're right John, here is a picture of an early 19th century Ibottson pairing chisel and a modern Dastra #1 sweep gouge. The first has a wider, much nicer bolster and nicer shoulders, but the Dastra is almost there. Only a little extra effort would have them making what we want. The thickness is almost the same as you can see.

    foto (2).jpg

  4. #64
    Are you sure about your last remark Derek? The sharp(LV) or rounded (RI) edges you show are where the chisel is thinner, creating clearance in the mortice, thus I suspect they won't do much cutting. The other side of the chisel, where the lands are touching the face of the chisel are probably rather sharp on both, and because this side has the exact same width as the mortice, sharpness here helps to scrape the sides of the mortice.

  5. #65
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Perth, Australia
    Posts
    9,469
    Kees, actually, I believe that you are correct (sound of me smacking my head ..... unless .... as you know, here in Oz we do everything upsidedown). Certainly, the sharp lands at the face of the blade really do help in cleaning the sidewalls.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek

  6. #66
    Thanks for clearing up that it was just an upside down Ozzie thing

  7. #67
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    2,534
    Kees, its not an ozzie thing, its just another unbiased tool review.

    With regard blade tests, it is easy to write "X performed better than Y" and provide the conditions for this.
    Last edited by Stewie Simpson; 08-23-2016 at 1:02 AM.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Derek Cohen View Post
    I only have preproduction versions with a variety of handle sizes and blade steels. I cannot therefore comment about the handles too much since I have not used the production versions, but I really like the general shape, and used them both with- and without the steel hoop. Even without the hoop they failed to show signs of wear.

    What I can say is that these are the best mortice chisels I have used. My go to chisels have been Ray Isles, which are excellent, and a bunch of vintage Wards (which are nearly as good in edge holding as the RI D2 blades).

    Where the Veritas shade the RI is in the blade design. The Veritas are slightly deeper, with more side registration near the bevel end. The lands are sharp front and back. These features translate into more control and smoother walls.

    I obtained great results from both A2 and PM-V11. I do not doubt that the PM steel is better, however I found that the A2 just kept on going, and I never could discover the duration each held an edge. For all practical purposes, either should hold an edge through the longest morticing session you choose to endure.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek
    @Derek: Did you write a review on this new chisels?

  9. #69
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Perth, Australia
    Posts
    9,469
    Hi John

    I am not in a position to write a review, and not really motivated to do so anyway. However I am in a position to offer some information since I have had the (pre-production) chisels around for quite a while.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek

  10. Derek,
    Your Iles chisel with the rounded fronts are old production. ray no longer makes them that way and the front is square.
    Joel
    -----
    Owner
    Tools for Working Wood

  11. #71
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Perth, Australia
    Posts
    9,469
    Thanks for the update Joel.

    Any thoughts about advantages/disadvantages of deeper/shallower blades, and a high (35 degree) secondary bevel on a shallow (20 degree) primary bevel versus a single 35 degree primary bevel?

    Regards from Perth

    Derek

  12. Derek,
    I think the lower the primary angle the better, although at some point the primary angle can be too low and the chisel top will break or bend. 20 degrees seems about right, although a little less seems to be fine, and more works, just less efficiently. A 35 degree primary bevel is a lot lot harder to bang into the wood and I cannot image why anyone would use it but apparently they do. A small secondary bevel of 35 degrees or more is important to keep the edge intact.
    -----
    Owner
    Tools for Working Wood

  13. #73
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Perth, Australia
    Posts
    9,469
    Thanks Joel. That is the formula I have followed. When asked why, I generally quote you in this regard. Is there historical support for this configuration?

    Regards from Perth

    Derek

  14. #74
    When I try to meassure the primairy bevels of the mortice chisels in the Seaton Chest book, I find something between 20 and 25 degrees at the tip. Of course I can't meassure a secundairy bevel from a photograph. BTW, those primary bevels are rounded. The angle becomes increasingly less when you go further away from the tip.

    foto (3).jpg

  15. #75
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Dublin, CA
    Posts
    4,119
    Quote Originally Posted by Joel Moskowitz View Post
    Derek,
    I think the lower the primary angle the better, although at some point the primary angle can be too low and the chisel top will break or bend. 20 degrees seems about right, although a little less seems to be fine, and more works, just less efficiently. A 35 degree primary bevel is a lot lot harder to bang into the wood and I cannot image why anyone would use it but apparently they do. A small secondary bevel of 35 degrees or more is important to keep the edge intact.
    I use 20 primary / 35 secondary on my RIs (and previously used that configuration on my Narex mortise chisels) and it works quite nicely for me. Like Derek I think I got the idea from Joel's suggestion.

    IMO one key is to keep the secondary fairly small so that you're not doing a lot of compressing with the tip. The secondary is there to keep the tip from chipping/folding, and it doesn't need to be large for that.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •