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Thread: Sanding Sealer & BLO Questions

  1. #16
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    Staining should be done before the filler, since filler makes even penetration of the stain more difficult. (Been there, done that.) An initial seal coat keeps the filler from staining the base wood, and colors only the pores. So--first use dye to get the base color right, seal it with dewaxed shellac, and then apply the filler. The filler should be colored so that the pores end up the color you want. To keep them light, use the Behlen's natural and add just enough oil paint to get the right shade. This will give you pores anywhere from cream colored to dark if you add lots of pigment. Good colors are yellow ochre (earthy yellow), burnt umber (basic brown) and burnt sienna (reddish brown.) Then let the filler cure really well--the overnight recommendation on the label seems awfully short--I'd wait at least 48 hours before applying a top coat.

    You do have to experiment on scrap of the same wood--this kind of multi-step finishing schedule makes it very important.

  2. #17
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    Southport, NC
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    Steve, just some info to file away. Zinsser's Spray Can Shellac is also totally dewaxed. They don't advertise it as dewaxed but they do to make it spray without clogging the nozzle.

    Here is a reply for their Technical Support:

    "Our Bulls Eye Shellac Spray is a dewaxed product. We also manufacture SealCoat Universal Sanding Sealer which is a 100% dewaxed shellac. However, this product is currently not available in a spray application."
    Howie.........

  3. #18
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    I'm a big fan of shellac, but is it the right thing to use with paduak? I was reading some posts on another forum a while back about alcohol bleeding color out of the paduak and making for color runs on any adjoining wood. After reading those I went back and looked at some cherry endtables I'd made with paduak inlay. Sure enough, there's slight traces of rust/red color runs on the cherry - only adjacent to the paduak. This was using Behlens superblonde mixed from flakes. I guess this isn't a problem if the entire thing is paduak, but...
    I'm no expert but the posts I read seem to be backed up by what I've seen on my tables.
    Use the fence Luke

  4. #19
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    Right, I even knew that--once upon a time. Have you ever looked on the side of the spray can--they appear to have something like 6 different solvents/propellants involved including acetone.

  5. #20
    Doug, I'm seeing some of the bleeding you mentioned. This padauk box has maple trim, and I've seen a bit of red transferring onto the maple.

    I'm beginning to think Jim Becker suggested shellac just because he doesn't like me or something. As an update, I'm still wrestling with the finish on this box. I've tried a variety of brushed, padded and rubbed methods and techniques mentioned here and elsewhere, and still have not been able to get a smooth, consistent finish. After several days and nights of trying, I finally ended up scraping and sanding the whole thing back down to wood last night so I can start fresh. So far, about the only positive aspect of this experience has been that the pores in the padauk are nicely filled now.

    I'm going to give the french polishing technique another go today or tonight (whenever I get a chance to get in the shop). An article I read last night leads me to believe I've been trying to get the shellac too thick from the start. I may also switch to clear instead of amber shellac, since it's been very difficult for me to keep the shade consistent on the maple parts of the box.

    I'll hopefully post pics of my successful results soon. Either that, or I'll post pics of the box after I get done spray-painting it blue with Krylon.

    - Vaughn

  6. #21
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    I was not aware of any problem with Padauk and bleeding...I've never used it other than one pen turning. (The very first pen I turned about 7 years ago under the careful instruction of Bill Grumbine) If I steered you astray, my appologies.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  7. #22
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaughn McMillan
    Doug, I'm seeing some of the bleeding you mentioned. This padauk box has maple trim, and I've seen a bit of red transferring onto the maple. .....
    Vaughn - one other possibility I forgot to mention earlier. I haven't personally tried this yet, but fully intend to. I have a musical instrument build contemplated somewhere in the future and visit a lot of related forums. A lot of builders are using epoxy as pore-filler/sealer before applying top coats. Might be worth a try on some scrap to see how it and the paduak get along.
    Use the fence Luke

  8. #23
    Jim, no apologies necessary whatsoever. The bleeding isn't so bad as to be a problem, and I was only yankin' your chain about steering me down the path to humility by suggesting I try shellac. I have a newfound respect for folks who can use shellac and make it look good. After a bit more trying Sunday, I've opted to go back to something I know how to do. I've removed all the shellac and am re-filling the pores with BLO and 220 grit (and maybe eventually rottenstone). After that, I figure I'll get a few more coats of BLO built up, then top it with General Arm-R-Seal topcoat. I really want to learn to use shellac and also learn french polishing techniques, but I also want to complete this box before Christmas, and at my current success rate with the shellac I didn't see that happening. I also think it'll be easier to learn the proper techniques on a piece that doesn't have some of the molding details I'm dealing with on this box.

    Doug, I have other padauk projects in my future (just bought another nice chunk of it last weekend), so I'll look into the epoxy idea. So...what instrument do you have planned?

    - Vaughn

  9. #24
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    Vaughn---There are some resposes to a recent thread of mine which might be helpful in your quest to master shellac. Here is a link. http://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=24718

    I reduced the cut from 2# to 1#, and with the watercolor brush did much better than with the pad. Still by no means a master by the way. The key seems to be controlling the amount of solution in your brush. In fact, the whole process reminded me a lot of watercolor, which is likewise rather tricky.

    Dan
    Eternity is an awfully long time, especially toward the end.

    -Woody Allen-

    Critiques on works posted are always welcome

  10. #25
    Thanks Dan. I have been following your thread with interest since it started, because it was right along the same lines as my questions. I've tried brushing 3#, 2# and 1# cuts, and all the various rubbing-out with DNA suggestions. Still no love yet. From what I've seen, I'm betting part of my problem is using the wrong brush. I'm sure it's nothing a bit of practice and patience can't fix. (Now all I gotta do is find me some practice and patience.)

    - Vaughn

  11. #26
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaughn McMillan
    ...
    Doug, I have other padauk projects in my future (just bought another nice chunk of it last weekend), so I'll look into the epoxy idea. So...what instrument do you have planned?
    I haven't 100% made up my mind. At the moment, it's a tossup between an H5 style mandola or a classical guitar as the first victim of my attempts. I'm sure whichever I do first, I'll no sooner get it done then realize all the things I could have done better and have to build a 2nd one just to satisfy myself, so it could turn out to be a few instruments.

    FYI - I found this thread I posted from a while back where they're using epoxy as pore-filler.
    http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=19255
    Use the fence Luke

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