Scroll Dust

[john whittaker]

Looking for opinions & information.

My "woodworking shop" is in a garage but it's not MY garage...as in....I don't have a garage. (yet) It would be nice to have some type of crafting/woodworking to do in the evenings without the need to drive across town. After my shop/garage is built, I would move it there but, this may take a year or three.
Was wondering???
I would like to mount a scroll saw in a spare room in my house. Not ever owning a scroll saw, how much dust do they produce? The spare room is already used for small fix-em-up projects, golf club repair, junk storage etc... so I'm not concerned about a little dust & shavings in the room. Just wouldn't want it all over the house. The saw "shavings" can be vacuumed. What I'm concerned about is fine particles flying all over the house. (No power sanding will be done)
If I put a good neoprene seal on the door do you think the dust from a scroll saw is manageable?
Has anybody else done something like this???
Thanks - John W

[Phil Phelps]

Unlike other saws that really cut the air, the scroll saw may be the least pollueter of dust of any saw. But it does make a mess. You could rig an overhead arm from a shop vac, although they are very noisey. You can put a drop cloth on the floor and such. But, dust is dust and it will find it's way everywhere.

[Ben Lang]

Well. As far as dust from a scroll saw is concerned. There isn't much. As long as you have a handy shop vac at your disposal the dust will be easy to keep under control. Most (if not all) scroll saws have a small hose to blow the dust off your work, and in turn onto the floor. I think even if this room has carpet in it, you should be able to control it. Far as airborn dust goes. The seal would work, but I wonder if its needed. I have to wonder if putting a simple air filter or something in the room wouldn't help? Provided that option in there of course.

What saw do you have?

[Lee DeRaud]

For what it's worth, I've never used my scroll saw outside the house: it puts less dust in the air than a hand scraper. I've got a folding utility table in my spare room with screw inserts to bolt it down, just vacuum the table and floor under it after each use. Mind you, I'm just cutting veneer for marquetry, but I don't see dust being an issue unless you're spending 10-12 hours a day cutting thick wood with it.

[Bill Pentz]

I upgraded my two sixties scroll saws (Dremel and ShopSmith) to an RBI Hawk in the late eighties, have two college aged children who grew up on that saw, and think I have a pretty good handle on both its use and dust production.

I'm going to go contrary to the grain here and state that scroll saw dust is a much bigger problem than most believe. Yes, they do produce little dust volume, but the dust they produce is far finer than other woodworking operations and most are built with a blower that immediately launches that fine dust into your face and shop air. To make matters worse, most hobbyists tend to cut nice, meaning toxic woods, for our scrolling. This combination really does need a little more care. I found on my own saw a 4" duct on a portable hood was still not enough to keep my shop from getting covered in fine dust until I also moved the blower on my saw so it did not launch the dust.

Moving that tiny bellows operated blower again really brought home the huge difference between blown air and air pulled by a vacuum. My 3 hp 1000+ CFM blower pulling through a 4" pipe moved a real 450 CFM, yet that little bellows pump operated off a tiny scroll saw motor was ample to launch the fine dust all over unless that big hose was put right next to the sawing and right in the way. Sucked air speed falls off at pi times the cube of the distance while blown air speed falls off at air resistance time distance. In other words blown air speed continues for many feet and sucked air for only a few inches.

The bottom line is good dust collection on a scroll saw requires vacuum both above the work and below, and just about any shop vacuum provides ample pressure and airflow to do the job well, but the vacuum filter should be upgraded to a finer HEPA filter.

bill

[Don Frambach]

I'm new to scroll sawing too but I know enough to save you a little money. I have a Hegner saw and bought their dust "collection" system for it. Not impressed!

I'm currently building a table for the saw and will try to hook up my 1.5 hp dust collector to it. I hope that will do the trick.

[john whittaker]

Thanks for the replies. Ben asked about my saw. I've posted a pick of an approx 1950's model Walker-Turner scroll saw. W-T was a div of Kearney & Trecker out of Plainfield NJ. It's a model 4510. Old iron...it's a beast but in very good working condition. I'm working on restoring this machine along with several other OWWM's. This WILL end up in my shop someday but I'm thinking of buying a smaller saw for my home. Something I can work, play & learn with until my imaginary shop takes shape.

So I'll end up with a not too high end Delta or DeWalt for my home and sell it later. I figure a mid range saw is a good one to get started on. I've seen & briefly used the Hawk and if my W-T beast turns out to be a dog will consider it for a permanent high end scroll saw. Not being a scroller I'm at the stage where I don't know what I don't know about what "I" like in a saw. And really don't know if the old iron is a good saw. But I like most old iron much better than anything new so I'm guessing it will be satisfactory.

As far as dust....I was real happy with what I was hearing until Bill chimed in...BUT I greatly respect his knowledge and must strongly consider what he says. So after thinking about it I can see how a pin point stream of air aimed directly at the insert will blow away, and help get air bourn, fine dust particles. So...If the blower was removed, and a vacuum hose installed just below and above the table as close as feasible, MOST of the fine dust should be captured. Bill also hit the nail stating that "exotics" were common scroll media. That's what I am planning.

So I think I'll go ahead with the idea of a scroll saw in the spare room. I like the idea of a small dust filter in the room. And will try the vacuum idea. It may be a bit loud but there are fixes to that problem. And I always have a mask to fall back on.

Thanks all for your comments. They were very helpful.

[Jim Dannels]

John: I have very few original ideas, but I read alot.

And sometimes ponder on ways to adapt what I read to fit a purpose in mind.
Problem 1) dust, blowing it around seems wrong. Problem 2) using a Shop vac disturbs the peace and concentration while scrolling. Problem 3) space is almost always a concern.Problem 4) one needs a pedestal of some kind.
On a side note I`m considering a light vibrating saw that needs vibration dampening.

Now about what I read, one of the woodworking magazines a year or so ago had an article on muffling the shop vac by placing it in a box with carpet on the inner walls.
Putting all these things together, makes me wonder about building a box for the vacum with carpet lining(only thing not enclosed is opening for hose) and like I mentioned a 2" thick box for the top filled with sand to dampen vibration all in a pedestal format. Hmm It might work?

Another thought on the airfilter, a friend does a lot of carving with a dremel tool in his spare bedroom.Being a retired robotics electrician he`s alway putting something together. He made a small box used 4 of theose nice quiet computer cooling fans and a common furnace filter for an air cleaner.

[Corey Hallagan]

John, I am looking forward to seeing how your old scroll saw turns out. Very cool project. I hope it is a gem waiting to be put to work! Good Luck. Let us know how the house scroll saw project turns out as well!

Corey

[john whittaker]

Jim...yes, In my business we often use sound enclosures (loud blowers) so the vacuum-in-a-box idea will work. I've built them before with good results. And since it will require both a suction hole (hose) and a vent, I think a filter could/should be used in the vent slots.

My pic posting is weak so I'm practicing by posting pics of other OWWM's I will be restoring. All were mfg between 1950 - 1955. Since this pic, the bandsaw has been upgraded. New blocks tires belt blade etc. Works great. Just cut a bunch of maple this evening with it and they all came out fine.

[Jim Dannels]

John Thats a nice collection of classic older tools!

Should be a lot of fun to restore and use them.

[Corey Hallagan]

Very nice collection of vintage stationary equipment John. Looking at your scroll saw. It may work very well. Hope it runs smooth. If it does, the only problem will be that changing the blades will be painfully slow compared to any new tool you will buy today. It looks like it has the very old thumb screw type blade holders.

Corey

[Don Baer]

Hope it runs smooth. If it does, the only problem will be that changing the blades will be painfully slow compared to any new tool you will buy today. It looks like it has the very old thumb screw type blade holders.

Corey

Corey,
My old Craftsman saw has the thumb screw type blade holders and I can change blades in a matter of a few seconds.

In terms of Dust, I usualy have a fan running behind me so any airborn dust created is blown away from me so I don't breath it in.

[Jeff Sudmeier]

John, I think you will be fine. There are lots of people that I have read about online that do woodworking in an apartment spare room. The seal around the door may be a good idea. I would probably get something like one of the shop vac air filters to try and keep the dust down in the rest of the house.

You do have to be aware that you are producing the worst dust of all, the finest of the fine and should probably wear a respirator.

[Ben Lang]

Appreciate the pic of your saw on here!

We have a 20" Dewalt that I started on before I got my Hawk, and I think thats a great saw. Uses the pinless blades, and its not bad about the vibration at all.

I like the dust collection ideas, I'm going to have to apply some of that to my saw.