Finding dye-based double-end markers for chatter-work

[Jamie Straw]

Took me 4 tries at various online and brick-and-mortar stores to find dye-based double-end markers for the tops' chatter-work. The ones I got are Le Plume "primary color" set. However, they aren't as bright as what I was expecting (don't really seem "primary"). Have had less success finding Tombow, which is the other brand I've heard recommended, have only found water-based. Anyone have an online source? Been making tops for the local County Fair.

[John Keeton]

Jamie, the amber tones of most wood species make it difficult to get true results from "primary" color dyes. A diluted acrylic paint may work better. Perhaps use a small foam brush?

[Jamie Straw]

Even before I get it on the wood, it doesn't look "primary" bright. Sharpies have good color, but aren't fine enough for chatterwork. The dual-brush tips have a very fine brush tip on one end, and more like a super-fine, rigid Sharpie tip on the other. For the brush end, you use the side of the tip of the brush very lightly as the top spins on the lathe. Here's a picture -- the top on the left was made by one of mentors, the one on the right is a practice one I made today, am just getting the right combination of pressure, speed, and orientation to get a half-way decent pattern. His is hard maple, mine cherry. Best pattern I've gotten out of cherry so far, done with a Wagner tool. Cherry doesn't take a chatter-tool very well.
Chatter comp.jpg

PS: Thanks to whomever fixed the "Manage Attachments" interface.

[John K Jordan]

Have you tried the Faber-Castell Pitt markers? They use a pigment instead of a soluble dye so they are better under finishes. Unfortunately, they are not double-ended.

I bought a set of the artists pens (the brush nib is perfect for small work). The colors are incredible. I used them not on chatter work but over other textured surfaces.

I notice they have "Big Brush" artist's pens too.

http://www.dickblick.com/products/fa...t-artist-pens/
http://www.dickblick.com/products/fa...h-artist-pens/

The black in a fine tip nib (not a brush) are good for signing too. I like them far better than the ultrafine Sharpies.

JKJ

[Jamie Straw]

Have you tried the Faber-Castell Pitt markers? They use a pigment instead of a soluble dye so they are better under finishes. Unfortunately, they are not double-ended.

I bought a set of the artists pens (the brush nib is perfect for small work). The colors are incredible. I used them not on chatter work but over other textured surfaces.

I notice they have "Big Brush" artist's pens too.

http://www.dickblick.com/products/fa...t-artist-pens/
http://www.dickblick.com/products/fa...h-artist-pens/

The black in a fine tip nib (not a brush) are good for signing too. I like them far better than the ultrafine Sharpies.

JKJ

Thanks, John, I might try a couple of those. The neon set would be a candidate. Those Big Brush ones would be really good for colors I use a lot. I won't be finishing the tops, other than a coat of wax if I ever put any up for sale. (Geez, how much can you charge for a top?) So, you sign your bowls and such with these? and then finish over them?

[Dwight Rutherford]

I found "Tombow dye pens" on Amazon.
Just noticed they are in fact water based.

[John K Jordan]

(...how much can you charge for a top?)
So, you sign your bowls and such with these? and then finish over them?

I decided long ago I would never sell a top, although I've had some people practically begging. I either give them away or keep them. I've given away hundreds. Tops in the pocket are great icebreakers to start conversations and meet new friends. (Our last trip to Italy was hosted by friends we first met by pulling out tops on a train between Austria and Venice!) With little kids I teach them how to spin then spin one upside down - gives them a goal to work towards. :-)

I color very few and don't chatter although I do burn in lines with a wire (a trick on steeply slanted surfaces!). I like to make them different sizes and use a variety of woods, mostly exotics because of the density and color. I've also turned them from acrylic and aluminum.

tops_comp2c.jpg

So far I only used the black pens on a couple of things (just recently got the set of black) and sprayed a finish. I can't remember what finish I used. I'll try to do a test tomorrow, oops, later today, with several finishes and see if any make the ink bleed. I've had trouble with every other kind of marker I've used. I generally finish tops with an alcohol-based shellac friction polish. The Pitt pens came recommended by someone on another forum in a thread about signing work.

From the Blick website:
Pigmented India Ink in multiple nib sizes and 58 colors brings great versatility to pen-and-ink drawings requiring lots of intricate details. The ink is waterproof, unsurpassably lightfast, acid-free, and pH-neutral.

This is the set of black pens I got, various nibs from incredibly fine to brush.
http://www.dickblick.com/items/20759-0089/

I bought this set of colored pens:
http://www.dickblick.com/items/20759-4129/
The brush nibs (B) are soft brushes with extremely fine points but the sides can make a broad stroke. They were easy to apply to textured wood slowly turning on the lathe. Sorry, I have no pictures.

JKJ

[Doug Rasmussen]

The best markers I've found with bright colors are fine tipped with acrylic paint. The name, which I forget, is a combination of the words acrylic and opaque . Coincidentally, yesterday I spent all morning unsuccessfully trying to find them (we put them away in a safe place so the grand kids wouldn't mix them in with their art stuff). I'll post the name if and when I find them.

Being acrylic they don't bleed. They aren't durable without a top coat like spray Deft lacquer.

I've only found them at the local university's bookstore for about 4 bucks per. No luck finding them online although it's been a few years since I looked.

The attached picture is about 1" square laser pyrography needing the fine tip to color.

[Al Wasser]

How much can you charge for a top? $4-5. Wood cost about $.50. Put a coat of lacquer on before you add the colors and it will brighten things a lot. Try it the other way and you have a mess.

[Jamie Straw]

I found "Tombow dye pens" on Amazon.
Just noticed they are in fact water based.

Yep, therein lies the problem. :-(

[Jamie Straw]

The best markers I've found with bright colors are fine tipped with acrylic paint. The name, which I forget, is a combination of the words acrylic and opaque . Coincidentally, yesterday I spent all morning unsuccessfully trying to find them (we put them away in a safe place so the grand kids wouldn't mix them in with their art stuff). I'll post the name if and when I find them.

Being acrylic they don't bleed. They aren't durable without a top coat like spray Deft lacquer.

I've only found them at the local university's bookstore for about 4 bucks per. No luck finding them online although it's been a few years since I looked.

The attached picture is about 1" square laser pyrography needing the fine tip to color.

Doug, I would love to know the name when you find them!

[Jamie Straw]

How much can you charge for a top? $4-5. Wood cost about $.50. Put a coat of lacquer on before you add the colors and it will brighten things a lot. Try it the other way and you have a mess.

Mmmmm, I'm lucky I guess, Eastern hard maple way less than $.50 each, though after "attrition" it might go up. These are pretty short tops, for the little persons that use them. 30% bigger and they'll still be pretty cheap.

[Doug Rasmussen]

Doug, I would love to know the name when you find them!

Okay, I finally found my pens (and a lot of other stuff forgot I had, so the search effort wasn't a total waste).

Go to Sakara of America website. Under brands scroll down to Permapaque, the fine tip is the one I have.

Permapaque also comes as a dual head.

University Bookstore where I got mine has discontinued them for lack of sales.

[Doug Rasmussen]

How much can you charge for a top? $4-5. Wood cost about $.50. Put a coat of lacquer on before you add the colors and it will brighten things a lot. Try it the other way and you have a mess.

Al,

Are you saying not to put lacquer over acrylic?

That's what I've been doing for quite awhile with no apparent problems. I haven't tried lacquer first, my impression is the acrylic would not stick as well as it does to raw wood. Plus the acrylic I'm using is not durable or scratch resistant.

[Al Wasser]

Doug --- I put on a very quick coat of lacquer or lacquer thinner by wiping on with a paper towel. Then I add color via a sharpie or other pen. If you reverse that process you have a mess as the lacquer causes the color to run.

Jamie-- I buy 8/4 hard maple shorts which I can find from time to time on sale. I then cut it into 8/4 X 8/4 X 5" pieces which will yield me 2 tops. I calculated the number of tops a board I bought last year would yield and got the 50cents. I'm sure that varies from board to board. If one makes real fancy tops I'm sure you can get more than $5.