Water-based stain/dye

[Sean Everett]

Hi all, I have a workshop in my basement where I help my wife out with her craft business. I'm hoping someone here can help me solve our latest challenge.

My wife uses a lot of furring strips in her business. Between our planer and sander we can prep them for staining pretty quickly. What we haven't figured out is how to get a fairly dark stain/dye with only one application. Currently we are using Varathane's Dark Walnut Stain+Poly (http://goo.gl/meBqIZ), which is water based but is not really what we're looking for. It's just not very dark, and we really don't want to have to apply a second coat. It runs about $14/quart, or $25 for 2 quarts ... and possibly we could place a special order for 20 quarts or whatever and get an even better deal.

If we have to avoid oil-based products, is there a better option?

I've been looking at dye powders and dye stains, and I'm wondering if maybe we had a dip tank where we immersed these pieces for however long and then pulled them out to dry if maybe that would give us the dark look that we're after. Or maybe we don't even need to immerse. I'm not sure either a dye powder or a dye stain would save us $ (General Finishes water based dye stain runs about $50/gallon, not sure yet if they have the color we're after).

Might we have success making our own dye stain with dark walnut powder? I realize it's a chore, but again if I had a dip tank with several gallons it should last us awhile.

Final issue (that I can think of), is that we would still want to avoid a second (finish) coat. These are for indoor crafts, so there shouldn't be an issue with them getting wet and reactivating any water-based dye ... so is that a negligible risk? I guess ideally we're just looking for something that we can apply once (even if we have to immerse for awhile). Again, she uses a LOT of these things so I'm trying to find a way to prep them more efficiently.

Thanks!

[Prashun Patel]

A waterbased dye can do that. Using transtint or transfast or Lockwood powders can allow u to make a dark dye that will absorb into pine well on one application.

If the pieces are small a dip tank is great. If they are larger consider a cheap hvlp spray gun.

Yes, water dye will reactivite in water. You must topcoat it.

You could also try an oil based gel stain.

[Jim Becker]

Water soluble dye can be pretty dark if you mix it up that way as Prashun mentioned. Do note that the actual "darkness" is a combination of the wood species/quality, dye density and the effect of the top coat on the color.

[Sean Everett]

Thanks, I probably just need to test a dye powder sample batch. Mostly we're dealing with cut pieces up to 24", occasionally 48" but most could be dipped.

Is it possible/recommended to add a finishing agent to a dye solution? I'm figuring if I'm already using a poly+stain that maybe a poly+dye would work similarly in terms of preventing reactivation of the dye.

[Prashun Patel]

You can add dye to a finish. You have to watch the compatibility. But it is possible. It is imho trickier to get even and deep penetration this way. after some experimentation you may find a combo that works.

If I were in your shoes, I would buy a cheap hvlp and two cups. One would be dedicated to your dye, and one would be dedicated to shellac or a water based finish. Spray the dye. Let dry. Spray the topcoat. This can be done quicker than dipping. Spraying will achieve faster dry times. In fact, with transtint you can dissolve the dye in ethanol and spray it which will prevent grain raising and allow you to go to topcoat within minutes of dye spraying.

[Sean Everett]

Thanks again, I'm gathering that trying to achieve a dark color and a finish in one application is very difficult and usually involves a compromise of some sort. The nice thing is that my wife produces farmhouse style products, so we're not after a super-uniform or impeccable finish.

We actually have a cheap HVLP system. Let me explain why I've been avoiding this approach.

Typically we use these furring strips as a trim for signs my wife sells in her business. Her business has been growing, which is why I'm looking for a more efficient treatment. She has some fixed sizes, but she does custom work as well. So inevitably I end up cutting huge quantities of various standard and custom sizes. Once they are cut the ends needs to be treated as well (see image below), so ... I thought even if I did a huge batch of these with our HVLP I'd still have to finish the ends of every piece I cut. Which eventually let me to think more along the lines of immersion, because then I'd just dip whatever sizes we cut and be done with it.

IMG_20160823_100009.jpg

I suppose a two-step immersion wouldn't be completely out of the question (dye, then finish), but I'd prefer to avoid it if possible. Is avoiding the finish altogether a completely crazy idea? These are decor items, so I can't really see how dye reactivation would be a problem.

[Steve Schoene]

It's important to distinquish between products such as the General Finishes water based dye stain which is a binder (acyrlic finish) in which a dye has been added to provide color. With this system the intensity of color is pretty much what the manufacturer has baked in. It also has the problem that unless applied evenly in the short time you have before it dries, you can get overlap streaks. If it works for you it would not have a great need for top coat.

[Sean Everett]

Ah, so I guess maybe the General Finishes Dye Stain is comparable to the Varathane Poly+Stain in that it also contains both a coloring and a finishing agent. The biggest complaint we have against the Varathane is the color, but perhaps GF would give us a darker color. And if we dip it then we wouldn't have to worry about overlap streaks.