Need Help To ID and Date an Older Simonds Rip Saw

[Pat Barry]

(BTW, do we do that anymore for tool gloats? Mark, I surely mean no offense!).
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No, that phrase has been outlawed here at SMC as being too offensive.

[Mark R Webster]

Honestly I was not offended

[Mike Allen1010]

No, that phrase has been outlawed here at SMC as being too offensive.

my sincerest apologies! I feel like an idiot – my bad.

[Pat Barry]

No worries. Its a long kind of sad story I think.

[Mark R Webster]

Appreciate the input

[Mark R Webster]

Thanks Mike!

[Brent Cutshall]

The saw is actually a Simonds No. 10 1/2. SImonds not SIMonds!

[Karl Andersson]

FWIW, my eyes see the bottom of an "S" after the U -it could be marked USOD, for US Ordnance Department, which purchased many supplies for the military prior to the second world war (I think they were absorbed into the different services during or just after that war). Some of the Stanley/Fray X-3 braces are marked US Ordnance Department, dating between the wars. Nice saw
Karl

[Pete Taran]

I agree it could be a 10 1/2 owing to the lack of wheat carving on the handle. However, the fact that the medallion is not marked Simonds is a big deal. Has the same importance then as selling an iPhone today without "apple" or their logo on it. Also, if it were a 10 1/2, you would see that model number on the blade below the main etch, or at least the remnants of it. I don't see any sign it was ever etched with a model number. If it does say USOD, then it was some contracted saw that Simonds made especially for them, which is also the reason it doesn't have a model number on it.

[Mark R Webster]

Ok I know very little about characterizing handsaws so I appreciate the information. I am a little confused though, when I look up the 10 1/2 the screw/bolt pattern on the handle is different from mine. Why do you feel it is a 10 1/2 versus the No 9 which seems to have the same hole pattern. Did they make different patterns within a saw model. Is it the fact that my saw is 28 inches long that takes it from the 9s. Regarding the USOD, that does make sense with the generic medallion and the lack of number below the etching. So I guess I am still wondering about the hole pattern with respect to the 10 1/2 and why it wouldn't be a 9. As a side note does anyone have any idea of the $ value and value to a collector in general since it is not part of the standard line of saws.

[Pete Taran]

Mark,

No way to know. The only people that know for sure are the ones who were in the plant 100 years ago when it was made. Dating/model identification works in most cases, but sometimes there is no real way to know for sure what was intended when looking at something in 2016. One thing is for sure and anyone in business will tell you. Businesses sell what people want to buy. If that included a stained purple hardwood handle saw with a 99 model number, they would make that for you. Is that model in any catalog? Nope. Does it fit any of the known published models? Nope. It is what it is. Just like your saw...it doesn't fit any of the known models. So, using the Occam's razor approach, the theory with the fewest assumptions is probably the correct one. A long winded way to say anyone who can say with certainty the answer to your question is on the other side of the dirt.

Regards,

Pete

[Mark R Webster]

Chuckle Chuckle Thanks Pete

[Mark R Webster]

Thanks Karl. I think it your right. US Ordnance Dept.
I have the saw pretty much restored at this point but I am missing one of the screw's slotted half. Any suggestions where I could find one, I have already checked Ebay. The missing piece is the slotted side, steel or nickel plated, 9/16" Diameter at the top, shaft OD1/4", 3/8" overall length top of the screw to bottom.

[Pete Taran]

Mark,

The easiest thing is to go to a local swap meet or garage sale and buy a junker, rusted up saw with the hardware you need. If you pay more than a couple bucks, you are paying to much. Just make sure that the nuts are the same size...there are really only two major diameters (with a lot of variation in each size). I'd be very surprised if you couldn't find a suitable candidate quickly for little cost.

Regards,

Pete

[Mark R Webster]

Thanks Pete, heading to a swap meet this morning.