Type of Oil for an Oil Stone

[Stanley Covington]

That's funny, I switched to oilstones partly because of the stupid mess the waterstones always make.
And indeed water is cheaper but you need so little oil that the cost is insignificant. And it sure doesn't seem to hinder the abrassive action of the stone. I guess the pressure on the tool is high enough to push aside the oil.

Your just a messy guy Kees!

Most people put way too much water on their waterstones. Less water, more work, fewer mudpies.

[Stewie Simpson]

I wouldn't part with the more aggressive cut of a Norton Crystolon oil stone, its primary role is to flatten the backs of my chisels and plane irons. From then on its natural water stones to polish the cutting edge. I don't find the clean up after using nat water stones to be a real issue, rinse the stones down with running water, and wipe up the primary work surface with a dry rag. The natural water stones do need to be flattened on a regular basis.

[Kees Heiden]

I think it is mostly the manmade waterstones that are so messy. They release grit very easilly, creating a muddy substance that goes everywhere. Then they need to be flattened almost daily. I realy got prettty sick of all that. Maybe natural waterstones can be used a lot cleaner?

A stronger argument for me in favor of the oilstones is that they are a lot harder which makes sharpening narrow chisels and gouges more fool proof. I haven't gouged an Arkansas stone yet, while it was a regular occurence with my waterstones. And of course oilstones are more user friendly when it gets cold in the shop.

[Trevor Goodwin]

I wouldn't part with the more aggressive cut of a Norton Crystolon oil stone, its primary role is to flatten the backs of my chisels and plane irons. From then on its natural water stones to polish the cutting edge. I don't find the clean up after using nat water stones to be a real issue, rinse the stones down with running water, and wipe up the primary work surface with a dry rag. The natural water stones do need to be flattened on a regular basis.

Stewie, have you tried using water on a Crystolon stone? I'm yet to use mine with oil because I find water to work quite well. I haven't found evidence on the web of others using water with crystolon stones, but it's just a lump of bonded SiC so I don't see why there should be a problem. The Norton lapping stone is SiC and they say to use water with that.

I'm yet to have problems with clogging of the stone, it still cuts quite well. If I leave the stone with water on it after doing some sharpening, the suspended metal particles turn brown. I figure if the stone was clogging then I'd see these rusty bits in the pits of the stone but I don't, they get flushed away. In summary, the Norton Crystolon stone makes a very inexpensive extra-coarse waterstone.

[Stewie Simpson]

Hi Trevor; I use Dan's Honing Oil with the Norton Crystolon Stone. IMO it boosts the aggressive cutting action I prefer within that stone.

cheers Stewie;

[Rich Riddle]

Thank you for all the information. It proved very insightful to say the least. I appreciate all the thought that went into your responses.

[Brian Deakin]

Please see link below Norton SHARPENING STONE OIL

http://msdsreport.com/msds/BZZTP

Ingredients

MINERAL OIL, WHITE; (WHITE MINERAL OIL)CAS: 64742-18-3RTECS: PY8032000OSHA PEL300 PPMACGIH TLV: 300 PPM

[Rob Luter]

Vegetable oils polymerize and dry to a solid layer of gunk after prolonged exposure to air. Mineral-based oils (white mineral oil, kerosene, mineral spirits, etc) stay liquid.

I found a nice Norton IM9 fine (320 grit) oilstone at a 2nd hand store. It has a layer of what appears to be solidified oil mixed with swarf all over the surface. At this point it doesn't cut at all. Hoping I can restore the stone as it's quite large and should be a good user. Any tips on how to dissolve the goo and bring this back to usable condition?

[Patrick Chase]

I found a nice Norton IM9 fine (320 grit) oilstone at a 2nd hand store. It has a layer of what appears to be solidified oil mixed with swarf all over the surface. At this point it doesn't cut at all. Hoping I can restore the stone as it's quite large and should be a good user. Any tips on how to dissolve the goo and bring this back to usable condition?

One thing to be aware of here is that synthetic oilstones like your IM9 are somewhat porous, and they're "filled" with petroleum jelly during manufacturing to keep the oil you use for honing close to the surface so that it behaves like a natural oilstone. I would therefore NOT recommend going after it with a solvent, or else you'll have to refill the stone. Doing so isn't terribly difficult (basically soak it in hot Vaseline) but it's probably more hassle than the alternatives.

I would personally go after the stone with faily coarse (#90 or perhaps even lower grit) loose SiC grit on a glass plate, similar to what Stewie described in the context of flattening his Crystolons. That should cut through the gunk in fairly short order. As an added bonus you'll have a flat stone when you're done.

[Patrick Chase]

I wouldn't part with the more aggressive cut of a Norton Crystolon oil stone, its primary role is to flatten the backs of my chisels and plane irons. From then on its natural water stones to polish the cutting edge. I don't find the clean up after using nat water stones to be a real issue, rinse the stones down with running water, and wipe up the primary work surface with a dry rag. The natural water stones do need to be flattened on a regular basis.

I have a combo Crystolon but it dishes fairly quickly for how fast it cuts, and it's a mess to flatten. For the sort of work you describe I mostly use diamond paste on mild steel these days. It's a lot faster at any given level of coarseness (esp on difficult steels), stays flat, cuts fast for a long time, and is easy to renew to full speed when it does slow down. The only catch is that the diamonds only go up to ~60 microns (#200-250) so ultra-coarse grits continue to be a niche for SiC.

[Patrick Chase]

I think it is mostly the manmade waterstones that are so messy. They release grit very easilly, creating a muddy substance that goes everywhere. Then they need to be flattened almost daily. I realy got prettty sick of all that. Maybe natural waterstones can be used a lot cleaner?

Stanley is right - pressure matters a lot. Adding pressure beyond a certain point doesn't speed up cutting much, but it certainly speeds up dishing.

Workflow/setup is also a big deal. While this may trigger snickers, the Veritas pond and a couple or Norton IM83s proved to be useful investments for me. I do a fair bit of my honing in a "dry" carpeted home office these days and the mess is a nonissue. I just replace the water in the pond/cases every so often and that's about it.

A stronger argument for me in favor of the oilstones is that they are a lot harder which makes sharpening narrow chisels and gouges more fool proof. I haven't gouged an Arkansas stone yet, while it was a regular occurence with my waterstones. And of course oilstones are more user friendly when it gets cold in the shop.

This is another big hint that you're using grossly excessive pressure. I sharpen gouges/skews/etc and haven't gouged a waterstone in years. For a long time [*] my concave and slip waterstones were the ubiquitous Matsunagas (aka King), which are notoriously soft in the higher grits, and I didn't gouge those.

One related thought: The fact that waterstones continuously expose fresh/sharp grit means that they don't need as much pressure to cut as a well-used oilstone, all else being equal. It sounds to me as though oilstones work well for you at least in part because your sharpening technique is optimized for oilstones.

[*] I finally cut up and shaped a nearly-used-up set of Besters and a Sigma "hard" 1K to replace the Matsunagas. Slips are one place where "dishing" can be an epic pain because you eventually have to reshape instead of just flattening, and harder stones are preferable. I also have Ark slips for that reason.

[Patrick Chase]

Please see link below Norton SHARPENING STONE OIL

http://msdsreport.com/msds/BZZTP

Ingredients

MINERAL OIL, WHITE; (WHITE MINERAL OIL)CAS: 64742-18-3RTECS: PY8032000OSHA PEL300 PPMACGIH TLV: 300 PPM

Indeed. I'm embarrassed to admit that I blew through a fair amount of that stuff (for lapping etc) before I caught on and invested in a gallon jug of food-grade white mineral oil.

The "Camelia Sword Oil" that TfJ and some other outlets sell is exactly the same thing, but with Camelia scent and yellow food coloring added. That's actually a good thing, because real Camelia oil dries and leaves a gunky residue.

EDIT: One plus to the Norton oil is that they're beyond reproach as a source. If they say it's pure white mineral oil then IMO it's a near certainty that it's gone through the processing Stew described in #18. Still a pretty expensive way to procure mineral oil, though :-).

[Reinis Kanders]

I bought some 150-180 micron diamond powder on eBay a while ago, but did not particularly care for it, made some deep scratches.

I have a combo Crystolon but it dishes fairly quickly for how fast it cuts, and it's a mess to flatten. For the sort of work you describe I mostly use diamond paste on mild steel these days. It's a lot faster at any given level of coarseness (esp on difficult steels), stays flat, cuts fast for a long time, and is easy to renew to full speed when it does slow down. The only catch is that the diamonds only go up to ~60 microns (#200-250) so ultra-coarse grits continue to be a niche for SiC.

[Patrick Chase]

I bought some 150-180 micron diamond powder on eBay a while ago, but did not particularly care for it, made some deep scratches.

Err, let me amend my previous comment to "monocrystalline diamonds from reputable vendors only go up to ~60 microns or so".

You can get resin-bonded polycrystalline "clumps 'o diamond" in lower grits fresh off the slow boat from God-knows-where, but those present a couple problems:

1. The stuff on Ebay and Amazon usually doesn't claim to conform to the ANSI B74-20 grading spec and isn't very tightly controlled. That's more of a problem with fine polishing compounds, though.

2. Polycrystalline diamonds fail by sharding, so they can sometimes end up creating a bunch of deep scratches at the beginning and then not doing much of anything after that, which is the worst of both worlds. You can get around that by constantly refreshing the paste, but that sort of defeats one of the main reasons for using diamonds to begin with.

180 um is #70 or so depending on whose grit scale you use, so that's going to leave really nasty scratches in any abrasive.

[Stewie Simpson]

Patrick; have you read the following;http://consumables.alliedhightech.co...ing-s/1827.htm