Japanese and Western Chisel Design - Laminated Steel, Hollows and Hoops

[Luke Dupont]

I'd like a clarification on a few points that I've heard in passing, and a particular observation.

I have been under the impression that Japanese chisels are their own thing, but, I'm curious: were they influenced, or perhaps even patterned after Western Chisels of a certain style and era?

Here's why I ask. And, yes, this is extremely anecdotal, which is why I'm asking:

I have heard many times that laminated high/low carbon steel was used in the construction of Western chisels once upon a time. However, I had never seen such an example. That is, until...

I was watching the Woodwright's shop, and, Roy was using what looked to be a gigantic Japanese chisel! It was of laminated steel construction, had a hollow back, a hoop, and everything. Except, I've never seen him use a single Japanese tool on his show (you know, aside from that one episode about Japanese tools ;-), and though he mentioned the chisel briefly, he didn't identify it as being a Japanese design.

So, I've just been wondering with much curiosity:

Are there/were there Western chisels made in this pattern, or did a giant Japanese firmer chisel just happen to make it into his shop?

The full episode where I saw this particular chisel isn't on Youtube, so I can't link to it, but it's the one he uses in the "Folding Workbench" build to chop the mortises for the legs.

[Brian Holcombe]

Wooden buildings have been around for a few thousand years, so I think it's practically impossible to know who came up with the idea. Likely both cultures adopted similar ideas as they improve their methods of work from stone tools on through current.

The world's oldest wooden building is the Horyu-ji temple in Japan and it appears to have been designed in a way which would require chisels to help in construction of the building. There are buildings nearly as old in Europe IIRC. That temple was built around year 600, which means that people had been smelting iron for around 2000 years by that point and hard steel weapons were already on the battlefield for quite some time, so not a stretch to think that chisels had been around for quite some time at that point as well.

[Luke Dupont]

Wooden buildings have been around for a few thousand years, so I think it's practically impossible to know who came up with the idea. Likely both cultures adopted similar ideas as they improve their methods of work from stone tools on through current.

The world's oldest wooden building is the Horyu-ji temple in Japan and it appears to have been designed in a way which would require chisels to help in construction of the building. There are buildings nearly as old in Europe IIRC. That temple was built around year 600, which means that people had been smelting iron for around 2000 years by that point and hard steel weapons were already on the battlefield for quite some time, so not a stretch to think that chisels had been around for quite some time at that point as well.

Well, I was referring more to the features we find in Japanese chisels specifically, and the form itself (with the laminated steel construction, hoops, and hollow back), as opposed to just a simple piece of metal with a flat and bevel. Chisels have been around since bronze, and even stone was the primary medium for tools.

Specifically, I was curious if there were examples of Western chisels in the specific style that we associate with Japanese chisels, as I saw some unidentified chisel of ambiguous origins being used by Roy

[Pete Taran]

Luke,

I don't know the answer to your question, but wanted to comment on not seeing any laminated style western chisels.

Almost all the cutting edges made in the early to mid 1800s were of laminated construction. Every chisel, molding plane iron, bench iron, etc were a small thin piece of high carbon steel forge welded to a wrought iron back. This was done because it was just too costly and time consuming to produce high carbon steel. Most of it was made by taking wrought iron (no carbon content) and putting it in an airtight box with horse hooves, pig tails and other magical carbon containing stuff and putting it deep in the forge for many hours. As the iron heated, and the stuff around it charred, the carbon made it's way into the iron and became high carbon steel. After it cooled these pieces were thinned out and sometimes forge welded together again and put in for another soak. The carbon materials and the process was closely guarded. As you can imagine, makers of cutting edges used as little of this steel as possible because it was so hard to produce.

It became much easier when the Bessemer process was invented which took cast iron derived from iron ore and burned off about half the carbon to yield high carbon steel. Cast iron is saturated with carbon at 2%, while high carbon steel generally ranges from .8 to 1.2%

You can see the forge line on the edge of chisels or plane irons that are made this way if the edge is not rusted. If the back is polished, you can see it as well.

Regards,

Pete

[Roger Nair]

I've been in timber framing since the late 80's, now retired and a large portion of my kit of edge tools has been late 19th to early 20th century American made. I have been a flea market cruiser ever since and have not seen any American tools with a hollow grind on the flat. Most of the old heavy framing edge tools were laminated with sockets and steel hoops except slicks without hoops. Keep in mind Japan was a closed country to the USA until the mid 19th century. I would look for more likely commercial and technical connections from other East Asian countries

[Luke Dupont]

I've been in timber framing since the late 80's, now retired and a large portion of my kit of edge tools has been late 19th to early 20th century American made. I have been a flea market cruiser ever since and have not seen any American tools with a hollow grind on the flat. Most of the old heavy framing edge tools were laminated with sockets and steel hoops except slicks without hoops. Keep in mind Japan was a closed country to the USA until the mid 19th century. I would look for more likely commercial and technical connections from other East Asian countries

Hm. Perhaps it was some kind of Japanese Chisel after all, but:

While Japan was a closed country since the Tokugawa shogunate, and probably even to this day remains somewhat isolated for a first world country, up until Commodore Perry's arrival, they had maintained limited trade with the Dutch. Moreover, many seemingly traditional Japanese arts and practices are in fact quite recent carry overs, rarely predating the Edo-period, or at least with a great deal of modern influences. Take traditional Kanna, for example, which are so often out-fitted with chip-breakers; something that is, apparently, a very recent addition. Hence my speculation.

I think there are often more influences and connections that we realize, even in the case of seemingly unique/isolated traditions.

[Jim Koepke]

My recollection from reading is the makers of samurai swords turned to making tools when the samurai were outlawed.

Not sure if there is any truth to that.

In a few hours the other side of the globe will be getting up and maybe someone who is over there and knows will spread some light on this.

jtk

[Roger Nair]

There is a striking visual difference between the long body short neck American framing chisel and the comparable in function short body long neck Japanese framing chisel. I believe that aspect ratio remains a large difference throughout the range of chisels. Of course any generalization is sure to be wrong.

[Derek Cohen]

As I recall, Barr make laminated chisels along traditional Japanese lines. They offer framing and bench chisels. Is it possible that it was one of their chisels in the video?

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Stanley Covington]

So, I've just been wondering with much curiosity:

Are there/were there Western chisels made in this pattern, or did a giant Japanese firmer chisel just happen to make it into his shop?
.

Examples of Western laminated chisels exist in Museums and private collections. This technique is so natural in light of the difficulty and expense of making steel in pre-industrial times, and the archeological record of steel tools is so thin in all countries, that I doubt any evidence exists of where it first developed. A similar question is where was flint knapping first developed.

A hollow ground back on a chisel or plane blade is not unique to Japan, but makes perfect sense, and probably developed parallel in many areas at once.

The archaeologists in Japan continue to posit that woodworking tools such as the plane first came to Japan from China via the Korean Peninsula. I have not read this about chisels, perhaps because the chisel, like the axe, is a natural development of stone tools.

Anyway, despite diligent efforts and real improvements, our understanding of the true historical record in any area of ancient human civilization is very mistaken at best, and totally wrong at its worst, despite what the so-called experts write this month. Flat earth included.

Stan

[Kees Heiden]

No idea about the origin of Japanese chisels, China would be my best guess.

Laminated chisels are very common in the west until the early twentieth century. Steel was indeed expensive but another factor is the fact that toolsteel is rather difficult to forg, while wrought iron is much easier. So a good reason to make the complex body of the chisel first from wrought and then a quick easy welding job of a small bit of steel.

Crucible steel us an 18 th century invention, also called Cast Steel. Funny little fact, they had troubles forgewelding cast steel for a while, so all the cast steel chisels in the Seaton chest for example are made entirely from steel, no lamination.

The bessemer process seems not to have been used for toolsteel but more for things like railroad tracks etc.

And I don't think I have ever seen reference to hollows ground in chisel backs in western stuff. They did make the back of a chisel slightly concave though, either during the forging process or with the grinder. But nothing like that typical Japanese hollow.

[steven c newman]

Van Camp..
IMAG0015.jpg
1-3/8" wide. The first 2-3" is laminated. Fine, shiny steel vs grainy iron. Iron hoop. The corner chisel behind it is a P.S. & W. 7/8" Corner chisel.
IMAG0016.jpg
Just a couple small chisels....The Van Camp has a slight curve along it's length ( been well beat up, by others)

[Stanley Covington]

Luke,

I don't know the answer to your question, but wanted to comment on not seeing any laminated style western chisels.

Almost all the cutting edges made in the early to mid 1800s were of laminated construction. Every chisel, molding plane iron, bench iron, etc were a small thin piece of high carbon steel forge welded to a wrought iron back. This was done because it was just too costly and time consuming to produce high carbon steel. Most of it was made by taking wrought iron (no carbon content) and putting it in an airtight box with horse hooves, pig tails and other magical carbon containing stuff and putting it deep in the forge for many hours. As the iron heated, and the stuff around it charred, the carbon made it's way into the iron and became high carbon steel. After it cooled these pieces were thinned out and sometimes forge welded together again and put in for another soak. The carbon materials and the process was closely guarded. As you can imagine, makers of cutting edges used as little of this steel as possible because it was so hard to produce.

It became much easier when the Bessemer process was invented which took cast iron derived from iron ore and burned off about half the carbon to yield high carbon steel. Cast iron is saturated with carbon at 2%, while high carbon steel generally ranges from .8 to 1.2%

You can see the forge line on the edge of chisels or plane irons that are made this way if the edge is not rusted. If the back is polished, you can see it as well.

Regards,

Pete

Thanks for the insight, Pete. Excellent description.

Stan

[Kees Heiden]

Like I wrote above , the Bessemer process from about 1850 was not used primarilly for tool steel but for bulk steel purposes. For tool steel they used the process from Benjamin Huntsman from around 1750. Blister steel (made from wrought iron, cooked for a long time in an airtight vessel with carbon rich materials like bone, leather, hoofs etc), was melted in a crucible for about 3 hours and cast into ingots. Sometimes this proces was repeated. This vastly improved the homogenity and quality of blister steel. It creates the famous Britisch cast steel. This process was used until the introduction of the electric arc furnace.