Would 2 jointers be useful? or excessive?

[Andrew Hughes]

I think setting up a router or a tablesaw to joint wood is silly.
Time is better spend learning how to handplane.And more rewarding.
I rather rub a board flat on my driveway then fiddle with a router.

Aj

[mark mcfarlane]

...I rather rub a board flat on my driveway then fiddle with a router.

Aj

, thanks for the laugh Andrew.

[Roy Turbett]

I rather rub a board flat on my driveway then fiddle with a router.

Aj

Wax on - wax off ......

[Mark Wooden]

You can make a straight line sled to handle 8'+ stock for just about any table saw, and it's ahelluva lot easier and quicker than a router.

[Roy Turbett]

You can make a straight line sled to handle 8'+ stock for just about any table saw, and it's ahelluva lot easier and quicker than a router.

It's true that a sled is much more efficient to get a straight edge, but a straight cutting bit in a router table gives a much better finish cut and is just as fast as a second pass on the table saw without having to change setups. Also, the OP is doing 300 BF of cherry which is prone to burning when ripping. The router table doesn't have this problem.

[Mark Wooden]

300 bd ft is a decent pile, but not huge. I still say hone your knives for now, but if you can flatten a face but not joint an edge, somethings wrong,
Good rip blade, steady feed on a good saw(2+hp) and burning won't be a problem.
Rip a straight edge, smooth cut the other on a shaper with an outboard fence and power feed if available; if not run an offset fence for a smoothing pass, but the out feed fence should be long and straight.

I always quickly straighten one edge of my RS4S or H&M stock, crosscut and rip my parts out 1/4" to 1/2" over on width, 2" over on length, then flatten 1 face, joint 1 edge; then plane to thickness and size for width, whether with a jointer, in the planer on edge (used mostly) or on the shaper, depends on what I'm making.
Why?
I only have to handle large and heavy boards once maybe twice while breaking them down.( I'm getting older and don't like to work too hard anymore)
Inner tension is relieved, cracks and sheaving are exposed early in the process
Easier to flatten a 4" x 60" piece than an 9" x 10' board, and by cutting it shorter and narrower, it lessens the bow or crook you have to flatten/joint out
The time I have to acclimate the stock is less as there is a lot more of the inside of the stock exposed.
Doing things this way, I can usually keep overall waste below 12%- most folks figure 20-30%.

IMO. routers have their place as a necessary part of a shop, but if I was faced with having to mill 300 bd ft of anything with one, I'd sell them all and buy a jointer
YMMV- and please remember this is just an opinion

[Roy Turbett]

Good rip blade, steady feed on a good saw(2+hp) and burning won't be a problem.

Rip a straight edge, smooth cut the other on a shaper with an outboard fence and power feed if available; if not run an offset fence for a smoothing pass, but the out feed fence should be long and straight.

I'm also speaking from experience. I have a 5 hp Sawstop with a Freud Glue Line rip blade that is sharp and perfectly tuned and I still occasionally burn the edge of cherry. I have a 3 hp Porter Cable 7518 in my second router table that serves the same purpose as a shaper and produces a jointed edge that is superior to what I can get on the tablesaw.

[Warren Lake]

llke all the Ginger or Mariane posts it depends on what you are doing. so what are you doing you wrote


'm milling a bunch of cherry for a job. My 16" jointer with straight knives works fine for flattening one side before the boards go to the planer, but not so great for truing an edge.

The reason is the blades are getting dull. Well, it takes me so long to change out the knives I just can't take that time in the middle of this job (yeah I wish I had a Tersa or a helical jointer but I don't). So the jointed edges are not great.

I got to thinking it might be good to have a second jointer just for edge jointing.

And I think it could be a much smaller machine, even a 4" head. Byrd make a 4" head - and I picture retrofitting an older jointer with this head, and extending the beds so I can edge joint long boards.

Has anyone out there done something like this? Or have an opinion on having two jointers in a shop?

I think I read somewhere about using the router table with an off-set fence and a straight bit to edge joint boards. Haven't seen this in action, and so I'm not picturing if it will be easily adjustable to do good repeatable milling.

I feel this topic has likely been covered before, but I haven't found any threads on it at all.

Mark



-you run your face and no good for edges? its not set right or your technique is not good, in general the setting for a face and edge will be a bit different, especially if you want a spring joint and it takes seconds to get there
-if your knives are dull then hone them ten minutes and they will cut clean if you do a good job, I hone to the head not to the back table works better for me, for some things honed knives can work better than fresh sharp ones.,.
-second jointer fine, not needed, for me not for edges but for back up duplicate of one when I had tight deadlines old SCM never let me down back up not needed so far,
-smaller machine, 4" mickey mouse for any larger material, large longer material done 16 foot several times, I dont even like the 8" one after using a heavy machine,
-router table mickey mouse, noisey vibrating obnoxious beast have their place I guess but not here unless you dont have something better and you do
-shaper better than a router table different machine, still wont be as good as a jointer on long lengths, plus you have to set it up, jointer its right there in front of you, ready to go, I get about saving set up times but in this case there really is next to non.,

you are missing the basics, hone your knives and keep working, hone them again in the near future and again, dull knives dont work well and noisey and more dangerous, when you have time change them

[Mark Wooden]

-if your knives are dull then hone them ten minutes and they will cut clean if you do a good job, I hone to the head not to the back table works better for me, for some things honed knives can work better than fresh sharp ones.,.
you are missing the basics, hone your knives and keep working, hone them again in the near future and again, dull knives dont work well and noisey and more dangerous, when you have time change them

Ayup, that's what I'm thinking too. And don't forget to unplug/shut the breaker off first.

[Chris Fournier]

I'm also speaking from experience. I have a 5 hp Sawstop with a Freud Glue Line rip blade that is sharp and perfectly tuned and I still occasionally burn the edge of cherry. I have a 3 hp Porter Cable 7518 in my second router table that serves the same purpose as a shaper and produces a jointed edge that is superior to what I can get on the tablesaw.

That must be some router table that you have! I have never seen a router produce a better straight edge than a properly set up TS with a rip glue blade installed.

[Roy Turbett]

That must be some router table that you have! I have never seen a router produce a better straight edge than a properly set up TS with a rip glue blade installed.

I happened to be breaking down some cherry for some cabinets I'm making and thought I post some pictures of how I edge joint using a router table.

This is my table saw, out-feed table, in-feed table, and router table all set to same height.

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This is a piece of cherry ripped with a Freud Glue Line Rip Blade on a 5 hp Sawstop. Note the burnt edge.

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This is my router table setup. A 3/64" thick piece of formica like the one shown is mounted behind the left fence on the router table. I only use one shim because I'm going for a finish edge.

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This is the same piece of cherry after a single pass on the router table.

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Here'e another side by side comparison. The table saw cut is on the top. The router table is on the bottom.

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Long stock is just as easy to run as short stock.

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I'm using a Freud straight cutting bit with a bearing on the bottom. I line the bearing up with the left fence and then lower the bit to expose the cutting edge. This photo is taken from the top and shows a jointed board flush with left fence (out-feed) and a 3/64" gap on the right (in-feed) side. You can take off more stock by adding more shims but you will get the best finish with a single shim.

[IMG][/IMG]

[Warren Lake]

nice clean shop, enough burns on the wood to start a forest fire, smooth finish means little how straight or sprung whatever is what is important, small radius straight cutter will blow out at some point, its noisey and most important the important thing is how straight the board is. its slow and wont tolerate long boards well. To do that on a shaper would be one thing and its still a compromise with long material compared to a jointer. Try running a long heavy board. that is fine at the hobby level and still I could not do it, unrealistic for anyone who is making a living,

[Chris Fournier]

Hi Roy, thanks for posting those pictures they certainly explain your position on this topic! In my opinion you have a problem(s) at the tablesaw that you can address and you will then get glue ready edges off of your saw. If you edges are indeed straight off of your router then you are good to go of course.

You table saw problems are likely alignment related for several components. Also check the thicknesses of your riving knife and your carbides on that Freud blade. IF that blade is a thin kerf model I would make a shop clock face out of it!

Regardless thanks for letting us into your shop for a peek.

[Erik Loza]

Trying to think back about all the shops I've been in and don't remember ever seeing multiple jointers. Multiple shapers, yes. Multiple bandsaws, yes. Even multiple table saws (a big slider and then regular cabinet saw, maybe set up for dados, for example), but can't recall ever seeing more than a single jointer or planer. Not sure if that answers your question but just an observation from the production side of things.

Erik

[Roy Turbett]

Let me be clear, I'm not opposed to jointers and happen to be in the market for a good one. My response to this thread is in regard to the OP's question on how to use a router table for edge jointing.

I would also like to point out that stock with the burnt edges began as a 20" wide by 8' long piece of cherry with multiple splits, grains, and knots. Most of the burning happened when the natural stresses of the wood released when the wood was ripped and cross-cut into usable pieces. Also, cherry has a high resin content that makes it more prone to burning. The piece started out something like this one only much worse. My table saw is in perfect alignment and the blade is not thin kerf and is clean and sharp.

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I don't use my router table to get a straight edge. I attach a sled to get an initial straight edge and then break the stock down further using the same procedure Mark Wooden described earlier. I then let it acclimate overnight before cutting it to final dimension.

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The stock I'm preparing will become cabinet face frames and doors. I'm using the router table to obtain a finish edge. The router table produces a glass like edge without the scallops of a jointer or the saw marks of a table saw. But this edge can be too smooth for glue-ups. When I'm doing a glue-up, I use my table saw to remove 1/16" to prepare the edge.

This is a photo of two pieces of acclimated rough cut stock side by side. Notice the gap at the top.

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This is the same stock after 1/16" has been removed at the table saw. The burn mark has also been removed.

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