Bench chisel handles

[Derek Cohen]

Nice photos, Brian. Nice chisels!

Can you say something about the ergonomics of their handles. How do they facilitate control when held? How do you hold them when chopping, and when paring? What are your observations about their differences in use?

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Prashun Patel]

Is Ichou gata nomi different from bachi nomi, Brian?

[Phil Mueller]

Brian, can I be in your will?
Oh wait, you're younger than I am. I guess that won't work out so well.Hmm...even your little tool rest looks like perfect S4S.

[Kees Heiden]

foto (4).jpg

Some paring chisels. At the top for comparison a Japanese chisel. I don't really like chisels with a ferule at the top for anything other then chopping.

Then two oldies, early 19th century. I sure do like the small one allready, allthough I haven't used it much yet. The long narrow chisel still needs a lot of work. The end of the handle is quite seriously bruissed from a hammer.

And at the bottom two large boxwood handles, probablt late 19th/early 20th century. This is a handle I certainly like too. Feels very smooth in the hand and the palm of the hand and the large circumference allows a very possitive grip.

But I must confess that I am not too critical in the handle department. I can get used to almost anything.

[Brian Holcombe]

Prashun, I believe they are the same, but maybe Stan can comment with more specifics as their may be a subtle difference.

Thanks Derek, certainly!

I actually find all of them comfortable and intuitive to use, otherwise I would get rid of them. I use bench chisels to pare with on occasion, and so I am not bothered by having a hoop.

The extremely long tsuki nomi handles are nice to work with because I can really put my weight into them, everyone comments that one hand goes on the blade but I don't always find that to be the case, it depends on the situation if I'm upright and pushing against a stop then I usually have one hand on the handle and one on the blade but if I'm pressing against the floor (with a sacrificial board underneath) then usually two handles on the handle.



When I am using bench chisels, I only use the handle and do not use my hand on the blade (unless paring with them).

Hah! Thanks Phil!

[Derek Cohen]

Thanks Brian

That demos the points made by David and myself about the use of two hands. We can't see your legs and torso observe the power transfer - David shows this well in his DVD. Would you like to put on a fetching outfit and do it again?

Unfortunately, the video does not add to using a Western bench chisel. Do you have any?

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Brian Holcombe]

Lol! I'm sure I'll have an opportunity soon enough so I'll take another at some point.

I don't own a western bench chisel, only blue spruce paring chisels which I use for odds and ends. They're handy for tight spaces.

[Steve Voigt]

I will muddy the water by suggesting that the grips you show are unhelpful.

I control a chisel with the thumb and forefinger of the left hand. (I am right handed.) A pinching grip with the thumb on top.

This controls position and tilt, say for slotting into a knife line.

All I want from the right hand is shove or push, which comes from legs via the palm!

I try not to grip the handle at all, just finger tips resting on the shaft.

This approach applies to horizontal paring.

Much the same logic applies to chopping. The left hand positions and engages the knife line, it then moves to the top of the chisel, but does not grip. I just resists the diving tendency. Grip might twist the edge out of the line.

Of course some people like vertical paring, where there is considerable grip, but I do not like this technique.

These techniques may be seen in my chisel use DVD.

I am rushing to a class, but for me thumb and forefinger are at the sharp end!! not the handle.

Reading these quotes, it occurs to me that chisel handle preferences will vary a lot depending on how we actually hold and use the chisel. In David's approach, which involves things like switching hands and gripping the blade, the handle seems relatively unimportant; it almost doesn't matter what the handle design is.

However, I think some of these techniques are problematic. It is very slow to use both hands to position the chisel for chopping, as described above. When I watch fast, fluent woodworkers, they never do this. I admit I do it sometimes, but I regard it as a bad habit to be broken rather than an acceptable technique.

Similarly, holding the chisel at the tip, while it gives good control, gets very tiring if we do it for long sessions. It's also harder to keep the chisel perfectly perpendicular; slight movements at the tip translate into large angular variations. Holding at the handle is a lot less tiring and more precise in terms of angle. It's hard to criticize this technique too much because lots of great woodworkers do it (Frank Klausz, for example), so YMMV, but speaking just for myself I regard it as another bad habit to be broken.

Concerning paring, I don't see how one can avoid vertical paring. How would you make an odd-sized mortise, or a through mortise? I pare both vertically and horizontally all the time and regard them both as essential.

All of these things are hard to learn and require a lot of practice (I'm still practicing), just like shooting a ball or playing an instrument in tune. Fortunately chiseling is easier than both of those pursuits, so we don't need to be Steph Curry or Yo-Yo Ma to do good work. But, getting back to the point, I think the more you use the handle, the more the handle will matter.

[Allan Speers]

An equally quick reply, David.

The non-dominant hand guides the blade - agreed - while the dominant hand directs the force. Both hands have a task, but it is the hand that holds the handle - and how it holds the handle - that is the focus.

Regards from Perth

Derek

You know, I never thought about it before, and I realize it doesn't affect handle choice very much, but when paring I always guide with my dominant hand. (Not so when chopping.) It seems more precise.

Then again, I'm not a great w-worker, so there you go

[david charlesworth]

Vertical paring I hate. One is in such a poor position to judge squareness.

I was taught not to mess with the sides of mortices, (apart from paring a few whiskers), in fact this was seen as the fast track to purgatory or some such, as the dimension, which comes directly from the chisel size will be upset!!

When horizontal paring the handle is in my palm, and no more than the lightest fingertips touch the handle sides. Virtually no grip at all.

David

[david charlesworth]

Brian sent us a splendid video of his left hand grip, (doing exactly what I do) but no sign of his right hand.

What is he hiding? ~;-)#

David

[glenn bradley]

Butt chisels? I really do not see the point of them.

I have better control with a butt chisel and will use them for detail work when possible. This could be due to the fact that I have the wrist strength of a 12 year old ;-)

[Brian Holcombe]

David,

A very complicated system of ropes and pulleys operate the other side of that chisel

[Brian Holcombe]

I forgot that I took this video which better shows paring.

[david charlesworth]

Ropes and pulleys sound like the way forward!!

I think your right hand is similar, power from the palm and fingertips to steady?

Best,
David