Looking for advice on a first CNC router

[ed vitanovec]

Look at small Axiom precision autoroute 1 on rockler website, cnc,stand and tool box is $2k.
http://www.rockler.com/axiom-autorou...nd-and-toolbox

[Doug Rasmussen]

I'm sort of in the market for a small CNC router. But, I'm kind of spoiled since I have a number of CNC metal cutting machines. My current CNC's can cut wood although there are issues with wood, dust collection, spindles rpm and so on.

This past Saturday I visited Woodcraft to look over their offerings. The store manager told me I was lucky because their CNC "expert" happened to be in. It's a pretty sad state of affairs if that guy is considered an expert. Anyway he couldn't tell me anything about the controllers of the Sharks, Axiom or General they represent, only that as a user I don't need to know that.

Then onto Rockler and just missed their CNC demo day. At least their guy admitted he knew nothing about the Shark controller.

Tuesday I'll do some calling to the various manufacturer's tech supports trying to get straight answers. At this point I'm not optimistic. The small routers may be fine if all you want to do is work like Vectric software can handle, not so good if you want to go beyond that.

Three of my customers are among the biggest musical instrument manufacturers in the country (we make small metal parts for them). It's becoming obvious why they do all their wood cutting on CNC metal cutting type machine tools rather than routers (even though they could afford the best in routers).

[Bruce Page]

Three of my customers are among the biggest musical instrument manufacturers in the country (we make small metal parts for them). It's becoming obvious why they do all their wood cutting on CNC metal cutting type machine tools rather than routers (even though they could afford the best in routers).

FWIW, Fender Guitars use Camaster Cobra twin head cnc routers.

[Gerry Grzadzinski]

Unless they've changed something, the Sharks use a proprietary pendant controlling an ncPOD motion controller.

Axiom appears to use a Chinese HUST controller. But it's not listed on the HUST website. http://www.hust.com.tw/en/index.php

I would expect General to also use a chinese controller.

[Doug Rasmussen]

FWIW, Fender Guitars use Camaster Cobra twin head cnc routers.

Fadal VMC's became the "standard", at least for the west coast guys. Warmoth, Taylor and Tacoma Guitar all had Fadal's. Not so much that the Fadal's were the absolute best, more that Taylor started with them and others followed. A plus with Fadal's is they're basic, reliable machines and easy to repair. Warmoth has bought older Fadal's and had them rebuilt adding 10,000 rpm spindles.

Attached is an example of the type work I like to do. That's hand coded, 3 axis, about 40 lines of code using features of my Centroid controller. So far I don't think any of the low end controllers on the inexpensive routers are capable of this type cutting, out of plane arcs. The part was standing vertically when cut with a small wheel type cutter.

[Jerome Stanek]

I'm sort of in the market for a small CNC router. But, I'm kind of spoiled since I have a number of CNC metal cutting machines. My current CNC's can cut wood although there are issues with wood, dust collection, spindles rpm and so on.

This past Saturday I visited Woodcraft to look over their offerings. The store manager told me I was lucky because their CNC "expert" happened to be in. It's a pretty sad state of affairs if that guy is considered an expert. Anyway he couldn't tell me anything about the controllers of the Sharks, Axiom or General they represent, only that as a user I don't need to know that.

Then onto Rockler and just missed their CNC demo day. At least their guy admitted he knew nothing about the Shark controller.

Tuesday I'll do some calling to the various manufacturer's tech supports trying to get straight answers. At this point I'm not optimistic. The small routers may be fine if all you want to do is work like Vectric software can handle, not so good if you want to go beyond that.

Three of my customers are among the biggest musical instrument manufacturers in the country (we make small metal parts for them). It's becoming obvious why they do all their wood cutting on CNC metal cutting type machine tools rather than routers (even though they could afford the best in routers).

What do you need to do that Vectric Aspire can't handle Have you downloaded the demo and watched the videos

[Doug Rasmussen]

What do you need to do that Vectric Aspire can't handle Have you downloaded the demo and watched the videos

Aspire may well handle the part programming. I'm finding it's unlikely the low end router controllers have the ability to run programs coded the way we commonly do on my commercial CNC's. Things like cutting arcs outside G17, 18, 19 planes. This involves axis rotation. Plus being able to do mathematical operations to generate the cutter paths on the fly, as in macro programming. My requirements are related to being able to make similar families of parts where a change of a couple program variables can alter the basic size and shape of a part all done while standing in front of the machine. For example, on a part we run often the program is loaded into the CNC controller, the operator uses the control's program editor to type in the diameter of a certain part feature.

Not a chance I would be willing to pay 2,000 bucks for software that doesn't handle 4th axis code in an industry standard manner like Vcarve Pro and presumably Aspire.

[Gerry Grzadzinski]

Things like cutting arcs outside G17, 18, 19 planes.

Are these commands specific to a certain controller? No, you won't find this on any controllers under $10K

Plus being able to do mathematical operations to generate the cutter paths on the fly, as in macro programming

Many low end controls can do this.

[Jerome Stanek]

I think Microvellum would be a good choice but you would have more money in the software than the router. Have you downloaded Aspire to see what it can do.

[Brad Shipton]

Doug, I think you will have to put some of industrial milling preferences to the side if you are looking at what sounds like mostly low end CNC machines. If you want to work in wood, I think you need to keep in mind practical tolerances that take into account the fact wood expands/contracts with moisture. Gary has discussed this a few times on the camheads forum. Some of us consider 0.005" - 0.010" a reasonable tolerance for working in wood, but I know that would be considered terrible in the steel industry. If you increase your budget to the realm of $50k for a machine and $10k+ for software, then you can expect more. I am looking at Camworks and Mastercam to work with solidworks and those are both in the range of $5k for just 2.5 axis milling.

I do not think guitars are the target market for most wood CNC manufacturers. To make a wood CNC router equivalent to a CNC for steel and cut 4x8 to 5x12 sheet goods at a production speed I would imagine it would weigh in the neighborhood of 20,000lb+. I believe an Onsrud CNC that cuts these sheet goods at 1000ipm+ weighs more like 6,000 - 7,000lb.

[William Adams]

There is an effort to create a G-code pre-processor which will allow full G-code support for hobby-oriented G-code interpreters such as Grbl --- look up G# on github.

[Tony Leonard]

I'm about two steps ahead of you...I went through all the research and ended up buying a CNCRouterParts Standard 2448 kit. I just got it running about a week ago. For reference, I am a woodworker that also likes to make other "stuff." No real CNC experience other than using a CNC vertical mill to make cam masters over 20 years ago. I chose CNC Router Parts because it fit my needs, price, etc. and most of the lesser machines had lots of posts about issues. I did not find many posts about issues with their products.

in addition to the purchase price, somone already mentioned the "after costs." They add up quickly, so beware.

Very happy with the machine so far. No serious issues. I have only made a few parts. The folks at CNCRP have responded faster than expected to my questions - both direct and on the forum at CNCZone. It was quite a bit of labor to assemble, but not hard.

Anyway, thought I'd chime in since I am a rookie. Oh, I plan on cutting mostly wood, but also Al, brass, etc. now and then.

Working on dust collection now....this thing kicks out some dust!

Tony

[Raymond Seward]

Looks like I need to save some more $ before I take the plunge in CNC Routing. I had NO idea what all was needed to do CNC routing. Thank you for all your replies and a special thanks to Ed Harral for the phone chat!

[William Adams]

You can start pretty affordably w/ an entry-level hobbyist machine such as the MillrightCNC (starts at $300, the Shapeoko 3 which I feel is the best buy is $999 from Sparkfun), use free / opensource software (Inkscape and gcodetools or MakerCAM) ($0 plus the time to learn, and the concepts learned will apply to commercial apps), use a router which one already has, or buy an inexpensive Rocky MLCS 30 ($70), a 1/8" collet ($25 or so) and some endmills (start out w/ an inexpensive assortment for $20 or so), if not doing hazardous materials one can skimp on dust collection (limp along w/ what you have until you fashion a dust shoe).

There's a lot to learn, and tooling and workholding, and other accessories will add up quickly, but one can get started w/ the basics for less than many other woodworking tools.

[Art Mann]

I believe the low cost units and free software are a good way to learn and they would be a lot of fun too. However, these less than $1000 units are very limited in what they can do. I am glad I put enough money into my first machine that I didn't immediately feel the need to upgrade. If I knew then what I know now, I would have spent even more money on that first machine.