Ultra fine ceramic stone produces sharper edge than 6000 grit water stone

[Mike Holbrook]

They keep on ticking and ticking and ticking........They make the energizer bunny appear a minor flash in the pan. I can't find any evidence of wear on the triangle stones I have had for at least 30 years. Keep reminding me George, I almost picked up a water stone the other day.

[Pat Barry]

A true and constant tale of I,who have been saddened and chastened by the sight,in my inner eye, of my $50.00 going down the porcelain oasis. Indeed swirling,at a speed most indecent,down the greedy maw of the Bomb Bay Bowl.

So,Dear Reader,I exhort you,do entreat you: be faithful and chastened to the ceramic stones,should you have been using them. Stray not. Welcome into the ranks of thy Spydercos the Ultra Fine. Listen not to the Syrene call of the King stone,beckoning forth in its golden color,like some painted woman. Shun it

Who knew George was a master of literature in addition to his other accomplishments!

[Bill White]

Now, Where does one buy buffalo snot?
Thou knowest not?
Bill

[george wilson]

Indeed. If thou hast a need for buffalo snot,get ye hence to the place in the West where they do keep the great beastes we call buffalo. But,they are really bison. With great care,scrape it off of the fences that the keepers have caused to surround the buffalo.

[Mike Brady]

I recently acquired a Fine grade Spyderco. It does get things sharp quickly, but I have used it for chisels only because it is seriously dished in both length and width. I am not going to sacrifice a diamond stone in an effort to flatten this one. It will remain a stone on the bench to freshen a chisel quickly. My water stones will be used when I have enough blades to sharpen to warrant the prep required. By the way, I paid only $41.00 for it, shipped free.

I thank George for all of his input on the ceramics. His is an opinion I pay attention to and value.

[Derek Cohen]

Hi George

I wonder if the King composition has changed over the years? They were the manmade waterstone to purchase 20 .. 25 years ago. That's what I used then. I recall upgrading the 6000 to a 8000 Gold. Excellent stone for the right steel. I still have it. I think that David Charlesworth still uses them.

The King had a reputation for wearing quickly and needing constant flattening. I'm surprised that you purchased one, and not a Sigma 6000 - now that is a good waterstone.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Frederick Skelly]

A true and constant tale of I,who have been saddened and chastened by the sight,in my inner eye, of my $50.00 going down the porcelain oasis. Indeed swirling,at a speed most indecent,down the greedy maw of the Bomb Bay Bowl.

So,Dear Reader,I exhort you,do entreat you: be faithful and chastened to the ceramic stones,should you have been using them. Stray not. Welcome into the ranks of thy Spydercos the Ultra Fine. Listen not to the Syrene call of the King stone,beckoning forth in its golden color,like some painted woman. Shun it

The porcelain oasis?

ROFLMAO! That's some really good pain medicine George. It makes you talk funny AND hallucinate!

[Daniel Rode]

What I have works well and the money is spent (down the porcelain oasis) I use a combination diamond stones and a Shapton to finish. I wanted minimum maintenance and as few parts as possible. Simple, portable, economical.

Had I known more at the time, I'd have gone with a pair of Spyderco stones and green compound on hardwood. For me sharpening tools is like sharpening a pencil. It's a routine task that should not take much thought. Also, even a $1000 pencil sharpener and $100 pencil don't improve one's grammar.

[Patrick Chase]

The porcelain oasis?

ROFLMAO! That's some really good pain medicine George. It makes you talk funny AND hallucinate!

Indeed. George could have gone any number of directions with that Nietszche quotation. The "medieval dragon hunter" schtick (at least, that's what I think that was) was just about perfect, I think.

On a serious note, while I don't use the Spydercos due to my own subjective preferences, I think we can all agree that:

- The Spydercos offer great convenience and long term value, and will handle any reasonable tool steel

- The King 6K is an obsolete POS

- 6K is probably on the low side for a final waterstone, even a small-particle-size one like the Sigma Power 6K. Serious polishing stones start at ~8K and go up from there.

It would be interesting to see a comparison of the Spyderco UF to a comparably-priced polisher like the Sigma 13K. I bet they'd stack up closer than either George or I would care to admit :-).

[Jim Koepke]

"medieval dragon hunter"

My recollection is of the warning, "do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup."

jtk

[David farmer]

In regards ceramic stones, George you and I are as one.
Yet follow thee into the land of green paste I cannot.
For under glass, scratch's from such, to mine eyes, appear much larger than UF ceramics.
What sayeth others?

[Patrick Chase]

In regards ceramic stones, George you and I are as one.
Yet follow thee into the land of green paste I cannot.
For under glass, scratch's from such, to mine eyes, appear much larger than UF ceramics.
What sayeth others?

What substrate are you using?

This has been beaten to death, but the closest thing to a consensus is that the green compound does better on soft substrates like leather, where the biggest particles can recede such that they don't leave pronounced scratches.

It also does better after some break-in. The larger particles are Calcined Alumina, which can be somewhat friable IIRC.

[george wilson]

I exhort ye all to heartily strop again and again upon the same greene paste,thus wearing it completely out,and in so doing make it wax finer and finer. Wear down the unwanted and coarse lumps hidden in it.

And Mike,I pray thee to return your warped and dished stone to those who made it,for replacement. For,so hard and unyielding are the ceramics,it would indeed be beyond reasonable expectation to flatten if seriously dished. I know that it took but an hour for me to flatten my white fine stone. And,nothing was done to the black at all. My diamond stone is still in use tho it has been many years since I first had my stones.

The men who make the Spyderco stones are of pure heart and noble aspirations. I am sure that they grow e'en more servile in their efforts to make their products more perfect,day by day. They make but a few various stones,as far as I know,and be these not good,they will soon suffer themselves.

They know me not,nor of the good service I do them,be assured.

Oh,Patrick,I assure ye that I have ne'er heard of the "Medieval Dragon Hunter". Nor do I ever indulge in any games what so ever. I have not e'en played chess since my early 30's. Nor certainly have not sunk to the level of "Dungeons and Dragons" or its ilk.

The clip "Porcelain Oasis" hath been known to me for about 60 years or more. If they use it,they must have nicked it from me. Indeed,the word "clip" is at the least, seventeenth century English for "name". Tis borrowed from The Bard of Avon. Now,get thee hence,and ne'er again accuse me of using such ignoble sources.

[Patrick Chase]

The clip "Porcelain Oasis" has been known to me for about 60 years or more. If they use it,they must have stolen it from me. Indeed,the word "clip" is at the earliest, seventeenth century English for "name".

The version I'm familiar with is "porcelain altar". As in "I downed a fifth of Tequila, and spend the rest of the night worshipping at the porcelain altar".

[Ryan Mooney]

It would be interesting to see a comparison of the Spyderco UF to a comparably-priced polisher like the Sigma 13K. I bet they'd stack up closer than either George or I would care to admit :-).

Having both stones (because reasons.. we're not judging here I hope... ) but lacking advanced analytical equipment I can say only anecdotally that the finish off of them appears pretty comparable in use, visual reflectivity, and the rather coarse view via my 4x loupe (more magnification would undoubtedly show .. something..).

The Sigma is a bit fussy in that the quality of the finish depends somewhat on how you use it; there is some trade off between running it wetter and faster which is also a bit coarser or slower and drier which seems to "work it in" a wee bit and gives a more polished edge (echos of the green paste). In practice I don't find it hard to go from wetter to drier in one sitting and it works as a pretty natural sharpening progression once you're used to it. I'll also use the stone mostly dry for little touch ups (or I did before I got the UF anyway). It will also get to the final finish 3-4x faster than the UF; in practice that's less of an advantage than it might naively seem if you are diligent about sharpening consistently and frequently the UF doesn't really take meaningfully longer. It is also MUCH softer, this makes it a bit more challenging to use for gouges and other things that like to take a bite out of it. I've had trouble with card scrapers, my micro gouges (sub 2mm), and some skew chisels seem to like to grab a bit on the heel if your not careful (needless to say pull strokes only here). For those things I would personally consider the UF clearly superior. The sigma also needs to be flattened with some frequency for similar reasons, although again its not really a big deal to do.

The UF has the rather dramatic advantage - to me - of working admirably when used dry which makes it more useful in practice most of the time - in my shop - those of you with a different shop layout will undoubtedly feel differently. I found the wet stones especially annoying when trying to sneak in 30-40m of carving after work and before dinner as I don't have water in the shop (which is partially why I used the sigma some completely dry as well).

Practically speaking there is no reason anyone should really want both