Your Favorite Finish? Why?

[george wilson]

The trouble with polyurethane is that it "gasses" between coats. For this reason it cannot be rubbed. If you rub it,you get a "topographic" looking "map" which is the uncovering of layers,showing the gassing.

I am in a big hurry here. But,for most things,I like lacquer. It is easy to repair if it gets scratched. An application with a small brush "welds" scratches back together. Then,you can sand with wet or dry,and rub the lacquer back to a gloss(unless you want a matte.)

Nothing bothers the finish. Only lacquer thinner or acetone will cut it. So,for guitars,which get much handling,it is a great finish. Now,for violins it is a different matter,and oil varnishes are softer,making for better tone.

[Stanley Covington]

Stan, can you please tell us how much you thin it, and why?
Thanks,
Fred

The ratio of thinner to PU and steps I follow depend on the application. The purpose of thinning the PU is threefold. First, it helps the PU soak into the wood grain, especially endgrain. Second, it makes it possible to wet sand the wood using the thinned PU as a lubricant. Third, the wet sanding process creates a slurry of PU and sawdust that fills the grain.

For most applications, I don't want a visible surface finish, so to make the PU soak into the grain as deep as possible, I thin 100%. I sand down to the wood after each coat dries using the same thinned PU as lubricant, creating a slurry to fill the grain. I let this dry. After wet sanding the last coat, I wipe off all the PU slurry and let it dry. The PU has soaked deeply into the grain. The grain is filled and smooth and has a slight sheen. The finish cannot chip, or crack, or dent, but will continue to protect the wood even after hard use.

If a film topcoat is needed, I thin the PU about 75% or less, apply it with a sable brush, and let this last coat dry. It won't soak into the wood, and the grain is already filled, so the finish is very smooth if kept dust free while drying. There are no layers to go topographic.

This finish is one a custom gunstock maker taught me. It is very durable, practically waterproof, and really slows down moisture migration in/out of the wood making it perfect for guns and tools, and most anything that must take abuse. I even use it on my wooden planes and it really helps stops them from getting out of tolerance. This is a big deal with planes, as you know. It can be time consuming if perfection is the goal.

If you decide to try it, be sure to use a high-quality thinner, not the crap they sell at Home Depot. It makes a difference.

Stan

[george wilson]

What do you mean"The finish cannot chip,crack,or dent"? Is it made of armor plate?

It is getting harder and harder to get any varnish that is not Polyurethane. While I'll certainly agree that PU is a durable finish,I cannot use it for rubbing. I wish a larger variety of varnishes would continue to be available. I don't even know how much longer I'll be avle to get nitrocellulose lacquer. It is the traditional guitar finish,and is a prettier lacquer than acrylic,which has a cold look about it. This being because it has a resin base that is blue. Nitro has a yellow resin base. And seems to refract light differently.

[Frederick Skelly]

Thanks for the tutorial Stan!

[Stanley Covington]

What do you mean"The finish cannot chip,crack,or dent"? Is it made of armor plate?

This is simply because there is no film finish on the surface of the wood chip, crack or dent. By "dent" I mean that the finish's appearance and effectiveness would not be significantly changed if the wood became dented.

[Scott DelPorte]

I mostly do french polish for guitars, and have started using waterlox for furniture. I used to spray nitrocellulose lacquer for steel stringed guitars, but like the non-toxic nature of shellac. It takes me longer to pad on a shellac finish than spraying, but i like the process and I never really had a good system for managing the fumes of lacquer. For furniture that needs to take some abuse, I like wiping on a waterlox finish. I have only done a few tables with it, but I like it a lot. I find it about as easy to use as wipe on poly, but like how it looks a little better. The fumes dont seem to bother me either.

[Trevor Goodwin]

Stanley, I'm interested in your thinned PU method. Do you have any photos of the results, maybe even the process? Would it be suitable for chisel handles?

Do you have the surface vertical or horizontal when you apply it, or do you find it doesn't matter?

[george wilson]

It is WISE to invest in a proper filter mask when spraying lacquer. In my early 20's,I had no such protection,and managed to get myself good and ill from breathing too many lacquer fumes. These days ,and for the past many years,I have used the proper protection.

[Patrick Chase]

It is WISE to invest in a proper filter mask when spraying lacquer. In my early 20's,I had no such protection,and managed to get myself good and ill from breathing too many lacquer fumes. These days ,and for the past many years,I have used the proper protection.

Amen to that. Out of curiosity what do you use?

The 3M 6700 full-face mask seems to work OK. IMO it's a pain in the a** to play "match that toxin" between the MSDS and the filter selection guide, but it's worth it to avoid having to pull air through a multi-gas cartridge.

[James Waldron]

What do you mean"The finish cannot chip,crack,or dent"? Is it made of armor plate?

It is getting harder and harder to get any varnish that is not Polyurethane. While I'll certainly agree that PU is a durable finish,I cannot use it for rubbing. I wish a larger variety of varnishes would continue to be available. I don't even know how much longer I'll be avle to get nitrocellulose lacquer. It is the traditional guitar finish,and is a prettier lacquer than acrylic,which has a cold look about it. This being because it has a resin base that is blue. Nitro has a yellow resin base. And seems to refract light differently.

1. There are a number of varnish products produced for the marine industry. Some are of so-so quality, but there are several quite respectable brands. I can report good results in my work with Epifanes and with Petit Z-Spar Captain's (or Flagship) Varnish. The first is a bit harder and scratch resistant; the second is more resilient and has better impact resistance. Choose based on the property you need. Source at a local marine supply or at Defender Industries by mail-order.

2. I've had very good results getting the hardness and durability of polyurethane finishes with a fine hand rubbed look by applying a resin varnish (see 1., above) and rubbing it out in normal fashion. Works as you would wish. I'd suggest at least two coats of varnish before rubbing to make sure you have enough film thickness to avoid going through to the PU surface. These varnish coatings add warmer color to the PU that I like. You'll have to judge for yourself.

Sorry to say I can't help you with the nitrocellulose lacquer.

[Stanley Covington]

1. There are a number of varnish products produced for the marine industry. Some are of so-so quality, but there are several quite respectable brands. I can report good results in my work with Epifanes and with Petit Z-Spar Captain's (or Flagship) Varnish. The first is a bit harder and scratch resistant; the second is more resilient and has better impact resistance. Choose based on the property you need. Source at a local marine supply or at Defender Industries by mail-order.

2. I've had very good results getting the hardness and durability of polyurethane finishes with a fine hand rubbed look by applying a resin varnish (see 1., above) and rubbing it out in normal fashion. Works as you would wish. I'd suggest at least two coats of varnish before rubbing to make sure you have enough film thickness to avoid going through to the PU surface. These varnish coatings add warmer color to the PU that I like. You'll have to judge for yourself.

Sorry to say I can't help you with the nitrocellulose lacquer.

I can add my voice in support of Epiphanes varnish and PU and their thinner as well. Excellent products!

[Patrick Chase]

1. There are a number of varnish products produced for the marine industry. Some are of so-so quality, but there are several quite respectable brands. I can report good results in my work with Epifanes and with Petit Z-Spar Captain's (or Flagship) Varnish. The first is a bit harder and scratch resistant; the second is more resilient and has better impact resistance. Choose based on the property you need. Source at a local marine supply or at Defender Industries by mail-order.

How much does the Epifanes glossy marine varnish yellow during drying in your experience? I ask because it's Phenolic-modified Alkyd, and those tend to darken. I really like the hardness of Phenolic-Alkyd though FWIW.

[Jerry Olexa]

BLO followed by padding of shellac ..later wax

[James Waldron]

How much does the Epifanes glossy marine varnish yellow during drying in your experience? I ask because it's Phenolic-modified Alkyd, and those tend to darken. I really like the hardness of Phenolic-Alkyd though FWIW.

Both Epifanes and Z-Spar are phenolic. They both have an amber color. The color does not change appreciably during drying. Both have substantial amounts of ultra-violet light blockers and are designed to perform in tropical direct sun, where they perform better than most. Used below decks (or in your wife's living room) they are good for years.

Beware the "Rubbed Effect" versions. They won't even pass the six foot test. Not bad at 20 feet, but that's no strong recommendation. Put on the gloss varnish and rub it out if that's the look you want.

[Stanley Covington]

Stanley, I'm interested in your thinned PU method. Do you have any photos of the results, maybe even the process? Would it be suitable for chisel handles?

Do you have the surface vertical or horizontal when you apply it, or do you find it doesn't matter?

Trevor:

The pictures of gennou handles in my two long threads on the subject were finished using this method.

It works very well for chisel and saw handles. I usually do a gloss final topcoat as described in my earlier post for saw handles. It looks like a standard PU finish, but it has the advantage of protecting and sealing the wood from stains and moisture related damage even if the topcoat is damaged. This is the big advantage for gunstocks.

The film topcoat, if applied, is of course sensitive to orientation, but orientation is not critical for coats that are wet sanded. Of corse, the thinned PU will run off.

Stan