Handmade

[Trevor Goodwin]

If you want to classify CNC as handmade, according to Steve's interpretation of Etsy's rules, objects made on a 3D printer or laser cutter would be also. They are all programmed into a computer and controlled by a computer. I'd be very surprised if Etsy allowed these types of methods to full into the "handmade" category.

[Joel Thomas Runyan]

This is the Ship of Theseus.

But more often than not, I find that people who are actually handmaking things rarely advertise them as handmade. Ergo, the more I see "handmade" stamped on something, the less I can assume it is.

[Brian Holcombe]

The trouble with wanting to do everything from start to finish is that you have to be exceptional at every one of those tasks or you risk causing yourself a great disservice and lowering the overall quality of your end product. I feel I have enough on my plate building furniture/cabinetry/shoji and frames without adding the efforts a sawyer takes to that.

I rely on expertise of another at that point, much the same as cabinet makers did in years past.

[Steve Voigt]

Steve, your posts illuminate a number of the issues well. I agree with all of the points you made but one, and that relates to the use of a CNC. The point I will made links with George's term, "hand machined", which is applicable here.

Derek,

Thanks for the comments. It is kind of funny to be getting so much pushback on this, to the point of obviously offending some people (not you, but others), considering that 95% of my own work is done with hand tools and I haven't touched a CNC machine in over 10 years.

Admittedly, my example of CNC machining is a bit extreme and I don't blame you for disagreeing. However, I don't agree with your reasoning. Let me work through a couple points.

In my mind, the central issue is that the piece being made is controlled by the hand, and there must be a direct link to the hand. The hand hold the work piece and pushes it through a tablesaw blade. The hand hold the saw/handplane/chisel that cuts/saws/carves the work piece. The hand hold a drill/router or the hand pushes the workpiece through a router table or against a spindle sander. In all these, the shaping of the work piece has a direct connection to the hand.

I don't know why there has to be a direct link to the hand; it seems an arbitrary requirement. But let's go with it for now. Every mill or metal lathe I've ever used has power feed. I'd guess it's been standard on machines since at least the 50s, if not before. To make a cut of more than a few inches on a lathe, one would nearly always use the power feed, since it produces a better finish. So, would you say that if I crank through the cut by turning the handle manually (an operation that takes less skill than feeding a piece of wood to a table saw), I'm working by hand, but if I throw the lever that activates the power feed, I'm not?

Or consider threading on the lathe. On a "manual" lathe, once I'm set up, I throw a lever and the machine feeds through the cut, automatically bottoming out and stopping when it hits a pre-set stop. On a snazzy toolroom lathe like the Hardinge, I pull another lever and the cutter retracts without me having to touch my depth of cut setting. I throw another lever to feed back to the starting point, advance the cutter a few thousandths, and repeat. At no point am I actually controlling the cut with my hands. And the only thing that's different on a CNC lathe is that the retracting/advancing steps are done automatically and much faster.

The point is that almost none of the skill in using a metal lathe (or mill) has to do with the cranking the handles through the cut, the "direct link" that you describe. A machinist needs to be able to sharpen a tool (that's half the ballgame, at least), know speeds and feeds, deal with deflection, vibration, heat, and a host of other issues, secure the part in the machine, indicate it in, etc. etc. Most of these things are done by hand and eye, regardless of whether it's a manual machine or CNC. And they take a great deal of training and skill. An unskilled person who couldn't make a threaded shaft on a manual lathe, couldn't make one on a CNC either.

So, if we're going to disqualify CNC work from the "hand made" category (which is fine with me), we need to disqualify manual machining as well, because as I hope I've demonstrated, they are not that different and there is an enormous amount of overlap between the two categories. I think a lot of people here think that "CNC" means you walk up to computer, type in a few instructions, and out comes a part without ever getting your hands dirty. And that is simply not the case.

Personally, I think the whole discussion of whether something is "hand made" is about as useful as debating where the "real America" is. I'd prefer "custom made" or "made in small batches." Currently, I make planes by using a few antiquated machines for only the roughest operations, and doing most of the work (and all finished surfaces) by hand. If I bought a mill, would my work be less hand made? Perhaps. Would it be less custom made? Definitely not.

[Derek Cohen]

Steve, I think we need to distinguish between two different lathe processes. The first is the metal lathe, which I have never used but understand requires a guide for the blade to create a precise cut. There is no direct contact here between hand and tool (other than the set up, which requires skill - which I do not dispute or take for granted), but I would not classify it as "hand made". I would call it "machined". I am not happy that one would call it "hand machined" when the blade is guided by a mechanism. By contrast, turning wooden items relies on the hand for its creation. The lathe simply turns the wood. The same identification for the metal lathe extends to a CNC machine and laser cutting and a 3-D printer ... all are programmed, which requires knowledge and a separate skill of its own, but none have direct contact between the hand and the machine or the hand and the work piece. None are, therefore, even "hand machined". They are simply machined.

I think the essence (for myself) is that there is actual hand skill, made up of eye-hand coordination and dexterity, and that this is the primary ingredient in calling something "hand made". And I think that this does have relevancy, such as in circumstances where "hand made" is considered a central factor in the value of an item. A painting, a statue, a wooden box, furniture ... whatever ... that is desired for its uniqueness, rather than considered off a production line where at any time the manufacturer could just push a switch and make more.

We are entering a new era where computer programming is entering woodworking. It is likely to evoke similar criticisms from traditionalists as the tablesaw or planer or any other machine must have when these were first introduced. What they have in common is the reduction in hands-on skills. The skills are different, and perhaps in the future they will be accepted into main stream woodworking, but not by myself at this time.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Doug Hepler]

It is easy to get lost in semantic details. I feel sure that I know what hand made means. True, my dictionary does not support a claim that I can use power tools to make hand made furniture. It says that hand work is performed without the use of machines. (I’m sure it means machinery powered by steam or electricity because every tool is some kind of machine.) I tend to agree with the Etsy criteria quoted by Phil. They reflect David Pye's concept of "workmanship of risk." (See below)

When I was trying to decide this, I started with analogies. Hand-painted furniture or glassware, etc., seems self-evidently painted with a brush by a human. Hand made paper is actually made by hand, one sheet at a time. A handmade carpet is literally woven or knotted by hand. Although a machine, e.g., a loom, may have been used to produce a flatwoven carpet, the pedals and shuttlecock presumably were operated by feet and hands, and the artisan personally controlled the appearance of every inch. The yarn used to make a handmade carpet, however, may have been spun by an industrial machine or by hand, using a spinning wheel (a human-powered machine). A hand-thrown pot can be made on an electric potter’s wheel, and hand sewn clothes can be made on an electric sewing machine. Hand-blown glass is, of course, not touched by hand at all (ouch!) but is blown by human breath, one piece at a time.

Hand-made furniture shares the idea of individual character, craftsmanship, one-at-a-time production, and a connection between the craftsman and the user. In David Pye’s terminology, craftsmanship requires the workmanship of risk, where an operation is under the control of the workman and could go wrong if he or she were not sufficiently competent and attentive. This idea applies equally well to hand tools, hand-held power tools, and hand adjusted bench power tools. It seems to exclude automated substitutes for craftsmanship. Pye believed that workmanship of risk would produce small diversities in fit and appearance that would enhance the beauty of the piece, and which factory made furniture could never achieve. This is what many people mean when they say hand made. (Workmanship of risk is not a term that I intend to use very often in describing my work.)

People who value hand made furniture may have an additional criterion: uniqueness. When a client says, “hand made,” he usually means that the piece is not mass-produced. A piece designed to suit a client’s particular tastes and needs for color, style, dimensions, materials, and finish probably deserves to be called hand-made. It is technically custom made or (in the UK) bespoke furniture, but it would inevitably require a considerable amount of hand work, despite the fact that power tools were used in some operations. In my shop, it will certainly be fitted, assembled and finished by hand. Such a piece of custom furniture is assembled and finished part by part, regardless of whether the parts were made using power tools. Each step is visible to, and under the control of, the craftsman who is making it (me). The quality then depends on my competence and attentiveness at the moment (including my discipline to “do it right or do it over”).

I do see that my settled (personal) opinion about this will be challenged as CNC machines become more powerful and cheaper. I still do not think that I have to rip table legs and aprons from a rough cut board with a hand saw in order to call it hand made.

Doug

[Derek Cohen]

There is a fair chance some of the hand tools in your workshop have been manufactured using CNC technology.

Stewie

Thanks for the link to Lee Valley. I have visited there and walked through their machine shop and production lines. A number of the tools I reviewed privately for them began life as plastic printed models. And of course, their tools are not hand made ... but then are we expecting them to be? They are not advertised as such.

Veritas (and LN and Stanley and Clifton, probably include HNT Gordon as well ... ) are mass produced, and machines take up most of the donkey work. All are finished by hand, on machines. None of this surprises us. We do not expect more. We just expect is a good product.

Similarly, Carl Hanson & Son manufacture chairs designed by Hans Wegner, and have done so since 1950. The chairs are also mass produced. Most of the work was completed with copy lathes back then, and possibly today they use CNC machines. The chairs are finished by hand sanding the parts, and the company makes a big deal of that aspect. We admire the chairs for their design and solid construction, and the manufacturing process is irrelevant. The price of these chairs (several thousand dollars each for The Round Chair or "The Chair") makes them exclusive enough. The fact that they are beautiful makes them desirable. The construction is not advertised as hand made - but the fact they are referred to as hand finished indicates "hand made" is a desirable factor.

Incidentally, the choice of building The Chair by hand was a deliberate one by myself, and the challenge was to see how close I could replicate a machine made original using hand tools (after all, Wegner was a trained furniture maker as would have built the prototype by hand). The process was a huge learning exercise for me - not simply because I needed to find a way to replicate machine results with hand tools (ironic I know), but because along the way I was reminded that it might have been built differently if designed to be built with hand tools.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Pat Barry]

I get annoyed at the millions of square feet of "hand scraped" flooring I see at HD, Menards, Lowes, etc. Even a 6 year old would recognize that as a lie or deception.

[Stewie Simpson]

By golly, the mods are fast at deleting posts.

[Prashun Patel]

When i wake up to three emails from different people complaining about the same, repeated feud, yes. You should know that most of the time when i delete it is because several others have complained. Goading is usually recognized as such and many members besides me find it distracting and annoying. So, please stop.

[Stewie Simpson]

Appreciate you stepping in Prashun.

Stewie;

[James Pallas]

I found myself lol about this subject. I was thinking about that song way back about the year 2525. Since once a CNC is programmed and set in motion it doesn't need any human action to keep going. It will cut whatever is in its space, wood, plastic, metal or dog poo. If left unattended it will just cut air. The air will however be cut to exact shape. Just some fun interjected here. No harm or criticism intended.
Jim

[Phil Mueller]

Steve, thanks for helping me think through that. Esty's guidelines do seem appropriate for the times for the most part. I struggle a bit with their acceptance of hand assembled within the handmade selling site. It would suggest that I could come up with a unique table design, purchase pre-milled legs, top, and aprons to my specs, assemble it with purchased hardware, and sell it as handmade.

In essence, that is not much different from purchasing beads and stringing them in a unique pattern on a piece of wire. For some reason through, the jewelry scenario feels more handmade, than the woodworking scenario. Perhaps the expectation for woodworking is a bit on a higher order.

[Brian Holcombe]

Stewie

Thanks for the link to Lee Valley. I have visited there and walked through their machine shop and production lines. A number of the tools I reviewed privately for them began life as plastic printed models. And of course, their tools are not hand made ... but then are we expecting them to be? They are not advertised as such.

Veritas (and LN and Stanley and Clifton, probably include HNT Gordon as well ... ) are mass produced, and machines take up most of the donkey work. All are finished by hand, on machines. None of this surprises us. We do not expect more. We just expect is a good product.

Similarly, Carl Hanson & Son manufacture chairs designed by Hans Wegner, and have done so since 1950. The chairs are also mass produced. Most of the work was completed with copy lathes back then, and possibly today they use CNC machines. The chairs are finished by hand sanding the parts, and the company makes a big deal of that aspect. We admire the chairs for their design and solid construction, and the manufacturing process is irrelevant. The price of these chairs (several thousand dollars each for The Round Chair or "The Chair") makes them exclusive enough. The fact that they are beautiful makes them desirable. The construction is not advertised as hand made - but the fact they are referred to as hand finished indicates "hand made" is a desirable factor.

Incidentally, the choice of building The Chair by hand was a deliberate one by myself, and the challenge was to see how close I could replicate a machine made original using hand tools (after all, Wegner was a trained furniture maker as would have built the prototype by hand). The process was a huge learning exercise for me - not simply because I needed to find a way to replicate machine results with hand tools (ironic I know), but because along the way I was reminded that it might have been built differently if designed to be built with hand tools. For those who did not see the recent Pop Wood announcement, this did receive some recognition:

Regards from Perth

Derek

Derek,

Congrats!! Nice to win editor's choice in Popular Woodworking, and The Chair is certainly deserving of it.

Danish furniture making has always seemed a nice balance in my mind between hand and machine, especially in shops like Rud Rasmussen which produce an incredible amount of hand cut miter corner dovetails that are so accurately done they do look machine made. The Danish manufacturers produce for a huge design industry and so it would be very impractical for them to make entirely by hand, but the parts which require the effort are given the effort.

FWIW it's actually PP Mobler which manufactures 'The Chair' or PP501. Prior to PP Mobler 'The Chair' was produced by cabinetmaker Johannes Hansen. Carl Hanson & Son produce many of Wegner's chairs, most notably the Wishbone chair, or CH24.

[george wilson]

The German made workbenches that Wood Craft sold in the 1960's boasted that a worker had to be working on their benches for 25 years before they were allowed to work in the SANDING and OILING department. What kind of VERY slow learners were they hiring!!