Saw files: What to buy?

[Stewie Simpson]

Normand's quite correct. The edge retention on modern saw sharpening taper files are still shite compared to those that were much earlier made.

The "W" on the advertising label (far right box) indicates those files were manufactured for Nicholson, by the Wiltshire File Co, Australia. An excellent quality saw sharpening file.

McPherson's Pty. Ltd. 1980: The company acquires Wiltshire File Company as part of its entry into the housewares sector.

[Luke Dupont]

About 6 months ago I bought a Nicholson saw file from my local BORG, and it hardly survived a single sharpening session. It was an imposter, at best.

I don't know if they're just old ones that have been sitting on the shelf, or if the new ones are any better, but I'd personally stay away from them and go with a brand that is known for better quality. Whilst I haven't tried them myself yet, I've also heard that Bahco files are excellent.

[Stewie Simpson]

As someone who is accustomed to filing new teeth on a hand saw, the ability of the taper files edge to withstand the demands placed upon is critical from a cost perspective. The corner edges of the taper file will fail well in advance of the flats. Once the corner edges have failed, the taper file should be deemed no longer serviceable for saw sharpening. The sharpness within the corners edges of the taper files is an important asset to look for, as it not only provides you with some additional accuracy within forming the newly filed teeth, but also enables a slighter deeper gullet to be formed (of incremental importance as you increase the ppi/tpi). Some of the taper files now being sold on the market now have inherently rounded corner edges, of which includes the Bahco brand.

[Rollie Kelly]

I was at the Lie-Neilsen store/plant ~ a month ago. While on the tour, I asked about saw sharpening files. The tour guide told me they were trying several types but, could not recommend any at this time.
Hopefully they will be able to make a recommendation shortly. This might be a good time for DMT or others to introduce diamond saw files. Right now it seems to be a "crap shoot".
Good luck with the CS,
Rollie

[lowell holmes]

Matt, I got them on Amazon, they are easy to find.

Plus one for Amazon.

[Phil Mueller]

Stewie, I was intrigued by your post. I really hadn't payed much attention to the corner edges as I have limited experience and new files are all I have to go with.

To your point...
Here is a photo of a #7 slim Bahco (trust me, a smaller file was too difficult to photograph, but I assume they are similar):

image.jpg

And the resulting gullet:
image.jpg

Clearly, a rounded profile.

I don't have any vintage files to compare, and frankly without vintage files, I'm not sure there's much choice but to live with what I can get new. Would love your take on what this represents regarding performance.

Appreciate the saw file education, and a renewed interest in getting my hands on some vintage files!

[george wilson]

Luke: You probably got one of the earlier soft as butter Mexican Nicholsons. The new ones are properly hardened,but i don't know how they compare to a Bahco file. Everyone recommends Bahco,so I'd go with them. David Weaver also uses Bahco.
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[Pete Taran]

I have been selling and using current production Nicholson files for over a year. I use them personally and I don't see any problem with them. They are more regular in cross section than the Grobets I used to carry, but as others have noted, they are made in India now. I feel good that the files I use to sharpen saws that I sell are the same files I sell to customers are the same, and think they are just fine. I think where some people go wrong is buying a file and expecting it to last forever. I have always only used one edge per sharpening. I have discovered over the 20 years I have been filing that you can use a file almost indefinitely, but you are really wasting your time as the edge breaks down and the teeth burnish more than cut. I've carried Simonds, Bacho, Grobet and now Nicholson files. I like the Nicholsons. I'm sure they occasionally make some defective files, but then so did all the other makers I have carried.

Hope this helps.

Pete

PS. The saw filing treatise is available for free for anyone who wants to use it at the Vintagesaws.com website. It also has a table of what size file you should consider using for each tooth size.

[Phil Mueller]

Good to know, Pete, thanks!

[Pete Taran]

Phil,

I don't think the teeth you showed are like that as a result of the file. One of two things is happening:

1) You just didn't file deep enough to get the tips of the teeth sharp and pointed
2) You are "roiling" the file as you move in the gullet which causes the rounded edge

In my experience, the problem most file makers have is the edge doesn't come to a point. Grobet had this problem a lot. If the edge is wide (or at least not pointed) the gullets have flats in the bottom and the teeth are smaller. Bacho had this problem in the smaller sizes. It would be useful to see the teeth before you started filing to figure out which of the error modes I suggest above are in play.

Regards,

Pete

[Trevor Goodwin]

I thought saw files were meant to be 6-sided? By that i mean the flat edges are intentional, and this is the main difference between a generic triangular file and a saw file.
Paul Sellers discusses this and why it is necessary.

[Phil Mueller]

Thanks again Pete. I appreciate the experienced observation. I have a few more auction saws to practice on and will pay attention to your suggestions. I've done about 8 saws so far, so still have a wee bit to go to catch up to you ��

[lowell holmes]

Plus one for Ron Herman's dvd. You will be able to retooth, set teeth, and sharpen. I have the video and after seeing it, I sharpen any and all of my handsaws.

If I can do it, anybody can.

[Glen Canaday]

Paul does explain why the flat, but I don't recall ever seeing anyone give any formula or rule of thumb about how big that flat should be.

Also, I've never seen a triangular file that did not have the flats.

Also, I can't find a barette file that cuts on all sides to remake the teeth on my Acme 120, only the smaller safe edge files that would sharpen them.

[Stewie Simpson]

Paul; the general rule of thumb when selecting the right size taper file to ppi/tpi, is the flats should be (x2 the depth of gullet). A someone questionable guideline to follow, when you take into consideration the corner edges of the file will fail well in advance of any crucial wear to the flat faces of the taper file, during saw sharpening. imo