Italian 24" bandsaw re-vamp lower wheel adjustment or tire dress / both ?

[Tom Trees]

Hello Creekers
Thought it was a home run for this bandsaw ,the restoration and modifications were done
It was recommission time for this Griggo SNA 600 ...
Just doing some adjustments concerning the lower wheel
testing and such ,when my VFD did not start my saw after turning the saw off
So Its been In storage for the last while ,moved into new shop
and now I got it running again !!
Sorry I don't have much good photos of the work anymore ,just mostly VFD stuff
but I'm happy to share any details as, 'wecher love are saws ere .


Work carried out ... happy to go into more detail ..

Mobile base build design ...lever design credit to Bob Minchin (9fingers) .
This is a v2 bandsaw base design for me ...you cant put spine of saw close to the wall as the foot levers will hit it ..
unless you take off the 4 components ..could be good for security though not mobile then ?..
,

Trunnion bracket build ...there was a G-clamp holding the table on , as the casting for the single bolt was broken .
I tried replicating the base lever design ,just upside-down ..its not great TBH I would do something else again.
like new Minimax design ,But at least its safe as can be, now

Fence build from scratch .might make more mods to this in the future

VFD installation, Huanyang 2.2KW ,just brought back from the dead ...
Its a bit dicey yet though and I haven't programed in the pot again (adjustable speed) for fear of the magic smoke .
I had the pot working previously and I was running the saw at roughly 30HZ
as their was a lot of back and forth movement in the blade , towards the operator then against the thrust guides .

As there was a flattened grape sized lump missing out of the lower tire , I thought Id nothing to loose by taking it down abit.
I think its worse after crowning the wheels now
although the side to side movement is gone and now I can set the rollers close .

It seems after more research all large Italian saws have flat wheels instead of crowned ..
I think I will try flattening the crown off , but first
I would like to get the optimum setting of the lower wheel as I don't have any margin for error left.
I've set it co-planar and setup the yaw aswell .
The side of a lapped plane iron clamped to a block of wood works very well for scraping the tires ,
Might have another go...


So what position should the blade ride on the lower wheel on a 24" Italian saw ...

Does the blade track in exactly the same position on both wheels of your machines ?

I've got a 1" a 3/4" and a 1/2" blade to set my lower wheel up , just to see if both wheels
track evenly with different blades .

Would love to hear any input
Thanks folks
Tom

[Erik Loza]

On blades over 1/2", I track the blade so that the teeth hang off the front edge of both wheels. This is for tire longevity.

Adjusting the lower wheel is no big deal. It just has bolts rather than the quick-change mechanism. You will be adjusting 12 o'clock and 6 o'clock bolts, not three or nine, and go slowly: The adjustment is dynamic. I have never needed to check any Italian bandsaw for co-planarity of the wheels to get it cutting the way it should. The fact that it has flat tires greatly de-complicates all those setup issues. The body of your message is a bit disjointed, by the way.

Erik

[Tom Trees]

Thanks for replying Erik
I just wanted to make sure if the blade tracks in the exact same position on both wheels
or is there say for the sake of it ...the blade riding 2mm closer to the rear of the lower wheel..
Like ....Should I be shooting for the exact same position ?
Thank you
Sorry for the disjointed message ,I can never write properly when its dinner time for the dogs
Thanks
Tom

[Erik Loza]

As long as the teeth aren't tearing up the tire, that's what you're shooting for. It doesn't matter on a saw with crowned wheels, since the set of the blade teeth is accomodated by the curve of the tire profile but it matters on Italian machines, since the tire is flat.

Erik

[Tom Trees]

Thanks Erik
I don't think theirs much chance of that as theirs no meat left for the saw kerf to take away
SAM_0973.JPG
I just wanted to have some idea before i go scraping again .
I suppose i can get down to a point and try some adjustments again
before i scrape further ...
What ya'll think of the colour ?
Thanks again
Tom

[Van Huskey]

Listen to Erik.

I find flat tired saws more forgiving than crowned wheels BUT if while tuning and tracking a flat tired saw you treat it like a crowned tire saw you will be chasing your tail needlessly, for example don't stress about the blade not tracking in the exact place, it rarely will without the crown to pull it in to the center. Also don;t worry about co-planer wheels it is a myth, at least to the degree most wheels are out of plane. Many people work tirelessly to get wheels co-planer when they have other issues that need to be addressed but co-planer gets the blame. I personally have never had t fuss with the lower wheel on a steel Euro saw. In the end if flattening the tires doesn't fix all your issues quit looking for more stuff to play with when you KNOW of an obvious problem. Unless you can sand it out the tire needs replacing, don't try to will the saw to work perfectly when you aren't addressing a known defect. If flattening the wheel doesn;t fix all the issues replace the tire before potentially wonking something else up. General rule of thumb don't touch the lower wheel adjustments on a bandsaw until all the other posibilities are ruled out.

[Erik Loza]

Wow... So, did you actually put a crown on that lower tire?

Erik

[Van Huskey]

Thanks Erik
I don't think theirs much chance of that as theirs no meat left for the saw kerf to take away
SAM_0973.JPG
I just wanted to have some idea before i go scraping again .
I suppose i can get down to a point and try some adjustments again
before i scrape further ...
What ya'll think of the colour ?
Thanks again
Tom

You probably have enough tire left to get it flat BUT you simply need new tires.

[Erik Loza]

You probably have enough tire left to get it flat BUT you simply need new tires.

Yeah, now that I look at it. My feeling is that it will be huge headaches trying to track a blade with a mixture of flat and crowned tires. Maybe that is all your frustration so far? I agree with Van that it might be easier to just scab off the existing tire and start from scratch. One thing to be aware of with aftermarket poly tires like Carter. They're fine but a poly tire for a 24" wheel is going to be slightly loose if you go that route, since the wheel is actually 600mm. I sort of recall a thread where an owner tried putting a 16" poly tire on his MM16 and ended up with a big, gooey mess once he put tension on the blade.

Another idea would be to call SCM Group parts and order a replacement rubber tire for a Centauro S600P. Centauro is the only Italian saw that has user-serviceable tires but they are a tongue and groove profile. You could probably take a utility knife and carefully shave away the tongue, then have a true 600mm rubber tire to glue on. Just a thought.

Erik

[David Kumm]

i think your machine is either an ACM Star or Meber. You might source tires from places that sell those machines. Rubber is the way to go. Dave

[Tom Trees]

Wow... So, did you actually put a crown on that lower tire?

Erik

There was a small band in the middle of the tire that was flattish ...
with a channel cut deep into it from the kerf of a blade
There was bad side to side movment because of lumps taken out ..a blade snagged on some rubber at some point
aswell as getting stuck in one of the bearings and slightly damaging the bearing cover ...
I pulled them and replaced them ...I doubt it needed them though .
So yeah bottom wheel was toast .
This saw got a heavy bump as their is signs of jacking screw damage and a dent behind the wheel
...and it was used for cutting pallets or something with nails in it as there's deep scratches on the table .
I was running this saw at 30hz and there was a lot of movement /vibration
Maybe I'll configure the pot again and keep testing

Or maybe I'll try track the new narrow blade by hand without annoying the fairies ,
Its got 3 welds on it though ....
Bottom line I'm getting here ....flatten the crown and try again ...

SAM_0978.jpg
Thanks

[Peter Kelly]

Pretty certain Griggio owns ACM so I'd be surprised if it was a re-badged Meber.

[Tom Trees]

Thanks again Erik for clarification on the Centauro S600P tires having a tongue .
I can get them at a place called scott&sargent but they're very pricey and postage is hefty too .
I would defiantly choose the rubber tires on a machine of this class
I'll keep ye updated
Thanks

[Van Huskey]

i think your machine is either an ACM Star or Meber.

I agree and will go a step farther and say I am pretty sure it is an ACM. It is important to note Griggio specs their SNA line slightly differently from the standard Star line an example is the solid cast wheels, the Star line has spoked wheels as standard, though many are specced with solid wheels. Mebers usually have the angled off part at the top of the spine and their 600 is built heavier than the Star line, more like the ACM BS/Griggio SNAC and a couple more inches of resaw height than the Star.

[David Kumm]

Pete and Van, thanks for straightening me out. I thought Meber had been absorbed or gone out of business but see I'm in error there too. Were Meber's smaller machines similar to your comparison with the Star, and heavier- closer to the ACM " A " line? It gets confusing in the used market as Laguna imported some of both while Felder and Bridgewood stayed with the heavier series. Whether each importer changed some spec's is also above my pay grade. Once I went with old cast iron I lost track of the steel saws. Dave