Italian 24" bandsaw re-vamp lower wheel adjustment or tire dress / both ?

[Van Huskey]

Pete and Van, thanks for straightening me out. I thought Meber had been absorbed or gone out of business but see I'm in error there too. Were Meber's smaller machines similar to your comparison with the Star, and heavier- closer to the ACM " A " line? It gets confusing in the used market as Laguna imported some of both while Felder and Bridgewood stayed with the heavier series. Whether each importer changed some spec's is also above my pay grade. Once I went with old cast iron I lost track of the steel saws. Dave

Steel saws are impossible to keep up with the rebadging/changing suppliers/custom specs and companies going and coming and getting bought out. ACM can now be bought with Laguna guides and they now sell the Laguna LT16 under the ACM brand in Europe. The current Meber small saws (500/600) are heavier than the Star line, more akin to what ACM currently badges as the BS line and Griggio badges the SNAC line AKA the x40s. They also make a version of the 540 et al line with no rubber tires. I find Centauro to be the easiest to keep up with, everything (?) in the US and Canada is from the CO HD line for a while now and the older shorter resaw were from the CO line.

[Erik Loza]

This is just coming back to me now. The Meber 400mm machines we (and Laguna) used to sell back in the Minimax USA days also had snap-in tires. But I have no idea where you would get a 600mm Meber tire or if it even was of the same design. Yeah, that does look like an ACM machine to me as well.

To the OP, I got curious and searched for replacement rubber BS tires and apparently, Carter offers them. Their website states that their rubber tires are 15%-20% undersized, so it's possible that a 24" rubber tire could work on your machine. I imagine they could post to the UK as well. Just another thought...

http://www.carterproducts.com/band-s...24-rubber-tire

Erik

[Tom Trees]

Thanks Erik
That's really helpful
I will be checking back on this link again when I get some more beans .
Oh and it is an ACM STAR 600 by the way

[Charlton Wang]

As long as the teeth aren't tearing up the tire, that's what you're shooting for. It doesn't matter on a saw with crowned wheels, since the set of the blade teeth is accomodated by the curve of the tire profile but it matters on Italian machines, since the tire is flat.

Erik

Hi Erik,

Looking that manual for the MM/Sx00p bandsaws (https://www.partspronto.com/MachineD...OPERATIONS.pdf), on page 23, it seems to suggest both based on the picture and in the text that the tires are actually crowned, no? To quote:

"The ring seal already has the correct convexity"

I know the manual isn't the best but...

[Tom Trees]

I'm still taking the crown off my lower wheel as it happens ...
I will post some pictures later and write up aswell
Although It could be one of these situations ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mdwAkWvWMw

[Tom Trees]

Hi again folks
I have a gluing rubber tire question at end of my post ..Hopefully you guys are familiar with this rubber ?
I managed to take the crown off my tires but the maximum blade I can use is a 3/4" .
The 1" blades that I have keep shuddering back and fourth ..towards the operator and back towards the thrust bearing ...
I think this is about the maximum I can take off my lower tire at this stage .

Now I REALLY need to get a hungrier blade ....like a 1.3TPI ripper, because I need to saw this stuff FAST!
I have a load of reclaimed stuff I need to take the moldings and other profiles off to end up with square stock.
I'm getting a reaction to this iroko amongst other timbers that I have from the Ivory coast or Ghana
I have weighed up the risk and I simply can't afford any other timber ....never mind 100% quartersawn lumber...
Nor will it be as stable as the wood I have, even if I was able to afford some.

This will be for a Scandinavian/Klausz/Cosman style workbench ...dead flat and accurate.
I'm not in any rush to start cutting this.... It's more when I do, it will be a case of cut it up and get outta there for a week or two.
I have to crosscut the timbers at the same time on the tablesaw to find grain orientation too .

Before that I need to commission the saw first ...VFD bought, working on damaged motor shaft soon, pulley source, mobile base build, install VFD and custom switchgear, guard design and build , riving knife build...Jigs done ....
It'll take a while .
I have/am getting loads more safety equipment ...proper HASMAT style for this timber and once done with it getting other timbers from there on .

So I have decided to go for the Centauro 600 tire ..It's got a rib inside that I will have to cut away ...so be it .
I asked the supplier would any glue react to this rubber ...they just suggested the cork product instead ....
I asked them what kind of rubber it was and got no reply back .
Obviously they are unsure and don't want to advise me on a product that isn't risky...
I have my heart set on the rubber ...and was thinking of using epoxy to glue it on .
Does anyone recognize this rubber type from the picture ? ....
Hopefully will chime in with their experiences on gluing tires on .
Thanks folks
Tom

I must add that this tire scraping motion for the tires works with a leaning angle away from the tire like a scraper plane (with no burr)
I couldn't cut a piece of wood at this stage to make a proper mounting block ... A slight twist of the block against the frame to increase the depth of cut.
Don't over do the twist or you will bite into the tire and leave a ridge . Hand turning the wheel is what I done ...even though I have a vfd with an adjustable speed pot .

SAM_1151.JPG

Care to take a guess what the composition of this Centauro tire is ....they make Mini-max bandsaw in Italy
ceco600tyre.jpg

[Van Huskey]

I don't know the exact composition of the Centauro tire but I have always used 3M 1300 rubber and gasket adhesive and never had an issue. Some people prefer slow cure 2 part epoxy (especially for large 36"+ tires) but I have never had the 1300 fail.

[Tom Trees]

Thanks Van
I will have to look up that 3M 1300 ..that might persuade them to give me more of a clue to what these tires are made from.
I just rushed into Lidl supermarket because I remembered that they had UHU 2-K-quick epoxy adhesive ..
If this is not as suitable I will spring for the 3M instead ...
Off now to research some glue ..
I probably will be back for application tips and amount of glue required for the job (1 tire)
Thanks again

[Rick Fisher]

ACM, Meber and Centauro are all within 10 miles of each other. None are large companies.

[Van Huskey]

I probably will be back for application tips and amount of glue required for the job (1 tire)

It is best to do this off the bandsaw with a temporary shaft as an axle.

Stretch the tire onto the wheel

Take a 1" or so dowel (doesn't have to be wood) and put it under the tire and apply the glue behind the dowel as you roll it around the tire, this helps equalize the stretch and keeps a nice open area behind the dowel to apply the glue. Once you are all the way around remove the dowel and then turn the tire with one hand and press your other hand against the tire and smooth it against the rotation, this will ensure the stretch is equalized as the glue will still be acting basically like a lubricant at that point, be careful how you push it because you can push it right off the wheel and you will then have a proper mess. I then put some zip ties (loosely) around the tire and wheel about every 20 degrees to keep it from sliding off as the glue cures. You want them just tight enough to hold it but NOT compress the rubber. One it is cured you can trim the tire if needed and crown it but in this case you are going to crown it.


BTW by describing the process I am not saying all rubber tires on Euro saws need to be glued, many don't need it and some need more attention like vulcanizing, just responding to the request...

[Tom Trees]

I've just seen that the company which supplies the tires actually do sell glue for Centauro bandsaws ....
I was under the impression that they weren't glued on atall, judging by the Minimax video with Sam Blasco ...cecotyreglue.jpg
All I seen the last time was UHU brand adhesive that comes in the similar 650g can ...
It looked overpriced, not to mention what extra the postage would cost.
No wonder I got no advice on the glue ...I think they were worried about the ribbed tire issue, and didn't want to provoke me by telling me bout the centauro glue
I will give them an e-mail again to see if these tires are stretch on too ...I would like to be more prepared for the job.
They sell this UHU stuff for the cork tires that looks the same ...what kinda glue comes in 1kg tins ? its over 30 quid then VAT & postage on top
I think I will look up this other glue and find out what it is ...
pa3213.jpg

[Tom Trees]

Hi folks
Just thought an update on this would be of interest to some
I think I have sorted my saw out, hopefully................

After getting a replacement Centauro tire I thought I'd have nothing to loose by trying one final tire dress.
I decided to take the wheels off this time,as to check for squareness instead of laying a straight edge across the wheel.

1.JPG


I'm glad I done this, as I was surprised how off square they were ...there is an optical illusion when the wheels are on the saw .
I ended up with more meat towards the front on both wheels ...anyway
It seems that I might have found the root problem with my saw since taking the wheels off !
On the tensioning bracket, which is suspended by two bolts going into the casting there seems possibly to be some damage ...
I don't have a picture of the ends of the bolts, but it was evident that something was very wrong ...I could see the casting detritus on the ends of these bolts!!
If both these bolts going into this casting were screwed home it ended up with one bolt or the other, being off 90 degrees to the frame ...
Subsequently, this would have effect on the squareness of the mounting of the thing.
I put another set if nuts and washers on the other side of the frame so as to have both bolts going 90 degrees into the mounting bracket casting.
This hopefully seems to have sorted the problem.

4.JPG5.JPG7.JPG8.JPG


This saw had a fall at some point, as the trunnion bracket was broken when I got it ...
Taking it apart before moving onto a trailer, I loosened a G clamp to take the table off....
It was then I felt how heavy the table was on this thing
It nearly took me with it, luckily I managed to get a decent hold of it and not let it fall.
I have since made a big bracket so this can't happen.

So Another tire dress seems to have done it
It was a lot easier taking the wheels off, and nicer to be sure how close I was instead of guessing.

The method and tools I'd advise folks to have is ...
( My saw needs some painting now so some things omitted from list )...

A sheet of ply for the floor of the saw, as to stop things dropping and chipping the paint
A ballpoint pen, 2 if ya have em handy for upside-down use ..changing direction of strokes when getting close ..or a different colour either.
a G-clamp and a large F-clamp,
a square block of wood the length from the frame of your saw to the face of your wheel.
A slim piece of wood to G clamp a well lapped plane iron to the block
A length of timber to prop up, as for the F clamp to bite on ...
And a pallet piece for the top wheel clamp end to bite on to.
2.JPG3.JPG

Lower wheel ...
A towel around the F clamp as to not scrape the paint would be nice.
I don't have a piccy of the top wheel dressing but Its done the same way on the left side of the saw too...infact it's easier.
So clamping the block up with the f clamp first, then getting the g clamp into place, sliding the plane iron and slim block in under the g-clamp.

Having the iron leaning away form the wheel like in a scraper plane.
And tilt the main block into the wheel to the desired cut ....NOT butting the iron straight into the tire.

I hope some find this interesting.
My saw is running better than it ever was
Now hopefully this is just a damaged blade that's making this surface ....its a better result none the less

Thanks for reading
Tom

[Tom Trees]

Here's another piccy or two
Attachment 359469Attachment 359470
Hopefully this will be the end of the fuss with my bandsaw
Tom