Value of a Yates American J-170

[ryan key]

Hi everyone, first post on the forum. I've been lurking for a while and enjoy learning for everyone.

I have been watching out for an opportunity to upgrade my lathe. Recently a Yates American J-170 has come up for sale close to me. I'm not really sure what it is worth. Does anyone have any recommendations?

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yates american j170.png

Older all cast iron model J-170.
12" x 40".
large bearings (3" dia #6307)
reeves drive variable speed with lube port.
You need to install the 3/4 HP motor.
Mt2 head & tail.
1&1/8 inch by 8 TPI RH inboard spindle.
1" by 8 tpi left hand outboard spindle.
2 inboard faceplates.
I outboard faceplate/handwheel.
spindle lock.
gap bed.


A couple of the bed reinforcing webbing
pieces underneath are cracked or missing.


Needs a bit of tweeking, a paint job,
& the motor installed. May be a good upgrade
if you already have a smaller lathe with a VFD.
You could transfer it to this lathe.


info here--http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/782/436.pdf

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I am looking for something which is worth restoring and keeping in the long term.

Currently I own a craftex lathe which has been satisfactory for smaller projects however I regularly find I'm hitting it's limits and do not like the lack of rigidity. Also the lack of power 1/2 hp is sometimes frustrating.

http://www.busybeetools.com/products...csa-b2198.html

Thanks

[Roger Chandler]

That cracked and missing bed webbing would be a deal breaker for me, for sure. Structural integrity is gone, and you might as well go to a modern type lathe if you are going to upgrade anyway. You likely will have the same size linits with the lathe as your current busy bee model, which looks to be one of the clones to the Jet 1236. Your BB model is more modern than that y/a lathe.

Good used lathes come up from time to time, as estate sales, or upgrades. You can do much better, in my opinion.

[ryan key]

Do you think it is worth considering offering a lot lower and repairing the webbing? I have successfully brazed cast iron pumps before and had them run fine for years. Or would the heat cause other issues I'm overlooking such as warping the ways?

[Roger Chandler]

Do you think it is worth considering offering a lot lower and repairing the webbing? I have successfully brazed cast iron pumps before and had them run fine for years. Or would the heat cause other issues I'm overlooking such as warping the ways?

You are not really gaining much if you fix it, in my opinion. I did not read what his selling price is, but even if you can repair the webbing, you still have 12" swing like your B/B lathe, and that lathe has only a 3/4 hp motor........your B/B has a similar motor or maybe a 1 hp. If you enjoy tinkering/fixing and want another lathe of the same class as you have then the fun of the restoration may be enjoyable for you, but in the end, you still have about what you have got now.

A Jet 1221vs lathe has a strong 1 hp motor, yet is a midi, but can actually turn bowls up to 12" in diameter. If I really wanted to upgrade, then I might consider the Nova 1644 which is a basic lathe, but is in the price range [$800-$900] on sale of most higher end midis like the above mentioned Jet 1221 Vs. The Rikon midi with 1 hp and variable speed is in the $600 price range.

If you have the dollars to invest, the lathe I have is the Grizzly G0766 with 3 hp. reversing, VFD, premium inverter, 22" swing and sells for $1575.......mine has been a superb performer, as well as most others who have it.

You did not say what budget constraints you might have, but upgrading is more in my estimation than this old lathe that needs serious repair. Good luck with whatever you decide to do. My advice is just trying to help you consider the actual advance, or lack of it if you go with the proposed y/a unit in the picture, but you may really want to do the restoration, and if that is the case, then great, but know you are still in the same class lathe as you currently have, and your current B/B is probably a better unit than the y/a.

[ryan key]

Thanks Roger,

I think you are right and that the change to the Y/A might not be worth the trouble over the BB lathe. I would still be limited in size. I appreciate the thought out response.

My main issues with the BB lathe I was hoping to improve were:

- only a 1/2 HP motor
- lack of mass and rigidity. It vibrates excessively if I try to turn pieces that are out of round.
- The head stock is not well fixed tot eh ways and can actually flex considerably at its mounting point
- tail stock similarly is not well aligned to the ways
- the tool rest flexes considerably. This is mainly cause by the design of it being somewhat adjustable. The adjustment is nice but unsatisfactory as it can resonate.

I hope they have fixed those issues with new versions of the lathe.

The last project I was frustrated with on the Craftex (BB) was turning a 4' long handle for a Peavey. This was clearly too large both either the YA or the Craftex. I build a bed extension for the craftex which was functional but not as rigid as it should have been. I had hoped it would be worth my while to build a better bed extension for the YA for similar projects.

At the same time I expect I would still be restricted from ever turning larger bowls on the YA as I doubt I could put a riser block bellow the head.

I think I would enjoy restoring the YA as I am doing a similar project on an old Crescent bandsaw.

As for power I would probably consider using a 3 phase motor (have for free) with VFD (also free) instead of the 3/4 hp single phase motor. So I am not overly concerned about the 3/4 hp motor being a limitation.

I enjoy the old iron so I would prefer to find something older. However I would like to make sure it is a quality machine so it is worth my time to get running.

[Doug Ladendorf]

To provide additional perspective...the Yates lathes are very good. If it was in perfect condition with some extras it might be worth $700. The bearings are certainly more substantial than the Jet or any new lathe at that price. Given the condition though I would pass, unless you have an interest in vintage machinery and getting your hands dirty. If that's the case inspect it carefully, be sure it can be fixed at reasonable cost, and get the price down.

Doug

[ryan key]

Thanks Doug,

I think I will see how low the seller is willing to go. I felt his asking price was too high so now I don't feel so bad pressuring for something lower. Most likely I will pass on this one but I do find it is hard to find good older equipment for sale around here.

[Brice Rogers]

It seems strange that some of the reinforcing webs are cracked or missing. Perhaps it fell over or was dropped or otherwise abused. If I were you and still considering this, I would make sure to check the bed for straightness in all planes using a high quality straight edge. If there the ways aren't flat and if both ways aren't perfectly parallel with each other, you'll ultimately wish that you hadn't bought it.

[ryan key]

I agree that the cracks or missing webbing is the biggest issue with the lathe. I will need to check the ways before offering anything.

[Olaf Vogel]

Ryan, as someone who prefers the old stuff and has restored many, I would offer words of encouragement.
thats a tough, heavy old lathe, of very good quality, that will outlast most of the new ones.
So, my lathe is from 1880 and may be on original bearings......

if 3/4hp is too low, it's like very easy to upgrade. 3/4 hp vs. 1 hp is irrelevant IMO.

If you have a free VFD and motor, then you are covered.

The webbing issue wouldn't bother me at all, even unfixed. At 12" swing I sincerely doubt you could impart enough stress to matter. these old machines are typically massively overbuilt and very few modern machines come close. (robust and oneway come to mind. Those are the modern equivalent)

plus the design is much more stable. That wide headstock and base really helps.

Of the machines I've restored, paint, clean and adjust is usually all that's required.

If it suits your needs, the big question would be price. What's the asking?
Olaf

btw, I had one of those Busy Bee, but learned on something similar to the Yates. There's no comparison, not even close.
Yates is a great brand. That lathe will be around for another 50 years. Rikon, etc.....um......

[ryan key]

Hey Sorry everyone I didn't realize I had forgotten to include the link to the listing or the price from the description. He wants $700 CAD for it.

http://www.usedvictoria.com/classifi...Lathe_28016458

Thanks for your feedback Olaf. I originally turned on older lathes while I was in school and was usually satisfied with them although they were limited in size. Since then i have always been unimpressed with my Busy Bee lathe. So I had hoped the Yates would be a large improvement as you feel it is too.

I guess my only real concern should be if I would be better off saving the money and buying a much larger lathe or not which is something I need to figure out for myself as I am not sure if I would like working on larger bowls yet. I know I would like to have 48" between centers but that may be best solved with a bed extension for the few times I would use it. This would save space in the shop.

I was thinking of offering $500 but not sure if that would be reasonable.

[Olaf Vogel]

IMO - $500 is reasonable. Some sellers are, some are not. Can't hurt to try.

Also, I'm in Southern Ontario, which was the industrial heartland of Canada, 100 years ago, so local supply is plentiful.
I suspect the supply is not as good in Victoria so that will likely affect price. (although I hear there are a lot of turners)

Pay a reasonable price, and if you outgrow it, you can sell it, likely for a very similar amount. Its already been fully depreciated!
What I like about old machines is: everything is cast iron, heavy as hell, built like a tank, easy to fix. Motor swaps/upgrades are easy.

I used to buy old stuff and do a full refurbishment. Now I just make it run, test it thoroughly and it I like it, then do a refurb.

Personally, I like working on big stuff, but its a real commitment. There's all kinds of challenges beyond just a bigger lathe.

[Roger Chandler]

Ryan, you are certainly capable of making your own decision on this Y/A lathe. My feeling is that you will short change yourself considerably if you are able to upgrade to a modern lathe, and you go with this one......that is unless you really enjoy the old iron and refurbishment. That satisfaction may be more important to you than the end result you get with a total refirb.

Considering capability, features, power and all other things......if versatility and capability are what you prize most, then a modern lathe with features will do more than that lathe ever will, unless you build it to a similar capacity in size and power as the modern lathes..........riser blocks, VFD, more powerful 3 phase motor, etc, but by then you will have spent more than a modern lathe will cost you, and still it will have some limits the modern lathes may not have........again, just food for thought, and hopefully helps you decide what you really want in a lathe.......the experience/satisfaction of a rebuild, or the capability that enables greater turning experience........size of projects, ease of use, more refined features, and not to mention the quicker advance to your goals as a new machine can be delivered to your door.

Good luck with whatever you decide......either way, based on your ultimate desire, you will have a win.

[Olaf Vogel]

then a modern lathe with features will do more than that lathe ever will

Not to be argumentative, this just out of curiosity (and because I work on an antique), what modern features are those?
I took a look at a Jet 1840 (List price ~$3000) as a comparison and tried to figure out the differences that make it worth 6x as much.
- 6" more swing...