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Thread: Helping choosing coating to spray on cabinets

  1. #1

    Question Helping choosing coating to spray on cabinets

    Hey all,

    I apologize in advance for another cabinet question:

    I have no idea which type of coating to use to get my cabinets white. Rolling and/or brushing is not an option for me because of the stippling and brush strokes. I have an el-cheapo Wagner turbine HVLP from Amazon that did a decent job when I sprayed my entry door with SW Solo (thinned ~10%).

    The big question is: given my current equipment (el-cheapo turbine HVLP), are there any coatings that would work for interior cabinets? The usual suspects are BM Advance and Cabinet Coat, but I'm wondering if I could use a Target coatings tinted waterborne lacquer or some kind of milk paint and clear top coat? I'm open to any suggestions!

    It is my understanding that, in general, lacquers are harder and wear better than paints. I have no idea if Target 6500 is thin enough to spray through my HVLP or if it is a good long term choice for cabinets. My concern with Advance and CC is that I would have to thin them past the recommended amount to get a nice spray. Other concern is that I will be spraying base cabs inside my home, so I'd like to avoid solvent based coatings.

  2. #2
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    With your equipment the Target Coatings EM6500 is a good choice since it has a low viscosity and should spray well w/o thinning, or require only minimal thinning. ML Campbell's pigmented Agualente has a similar low viscosity and also should work well. BM's Advance, on the other hand, has a viscosity over 10 times higher than those two products and you need an air assisted gun to spray it w/o thinning. I have no knowledge of Cabinet Coat so I can't offer any comments about it.

    If you have a lot of cabinets to spray, you may want to consider upgrading to a higher quality gun. A pressure assisted setup offers a lot of advantages as it broadens the range of products you can spray well.

    John

    OK, I looked up Cabinet Coat. Same issue; it has a high viscosity in the range of Advance and GF's Enduro White Poly, and you would need an air assisted rig to spray it well.
    Last edited by John TenEyck; 09-23-2016 at 4:01 PM.

  3. #3
    I'll jump into this thread asking, what would be considered a good gun for cabinet painting. As a recent home owner I am building all my own cabinetry, book cases, etc.

    I have an entire kitchens worth of cabinets, laundry room upper and lowers, two built in bedroom closets, and three wall of bookshelves/cabinets in the coming years.

    With that said, I'm not afraid to spend a few bucks to get better results.

  4. #4
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    For all that work you can easily justify a new gun. My advise is to buy a gun that has SS internals, so you can spray WB products, and has a range of needle/nozzle/air cap sets so you can spray a wide range of materials. Some folks have two guns (or more), one for spraying paints and another for clearcoats. I have just one, but have no contamination problems as long as I clean the gun thoroughly after each use. Finally, I highly recommend a gun that has a pressure assisted cup, or pressure pot if you are going to spray gallons of material. This will allow you to spray most products w/o the need to thin them, and to spray through a smaller N/N set than you could with a gravity feed gun and that will give you finer atomization and lay down a smoother finish with less trouble. Personally, I am sold on the pressurized 3M PPS cup system. With it, I can spray at any angle, including upside down, which makes getting into odd places much easier. Clean up is a snap with it, too.

    I use an HVLP conversion gun because I already had an air compressor large enough to supply the air I needed. If you don't have an air compressor, you will have to decide if buying one makes sense or if you should go with a turbine system. In either case, you can get a very capable complete system for around $1000. That may seem like a lot of money, but you would spend far more to have a pro finish just one large project.

    John

  5. #5
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    I've never had to thin any of the various Target Coatings products I've used over the years with my pretty normal and basic Wagner HVPL conversion gun. It applies easily and I've enjoyed the quality of the finish. In fact, our kitchen was done with it back in 2003 and I only refinished this past summer. Heavier coatings, such as the BM advance, require a gun that's capable of working with a much more viscous finish. You cannot thin down water borne products very much more than 5-10%. Water is the carrier, not the solvent, so if you thin beyond that, you're spreading your actual finish molecules out more than they like and you end up with a poor finish.

    That said, while the Target EM6000 and EM6500 products have "lacquer" in the name on the label, they are not "lacquers" in the traditional sense. They are acrylics like almost every other waterborne product. The "lacquer" refers to the fact that these particular finishes from Target have some use characteristics that are similar to traditional lacquer...primarily the ability to "burn in" to the previous coats so you end up with effectively a single layer of finish in the end.

    BTW, BM Advance and Target EM2000 are interesting finishes in that they are an Alkyd finish emulsified into a water carrier. That cuts VOC considerably while retaining some of the desirable characteristics of an Alkyd varnish/paint. I've been using a bit of the BM Advance due to the convenience of local availability and actually plan on investing in another gun that is capable of spraying this thicker coating properly.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  6. #6
    Thank you all for the insight. This place is great!

    I considered getting a different gun, but I'll first try mine and see if it's up to the task. Very good to know that the EM6500 is considerably thinner than Advance or CC.

    Am I correct to assume that EM6500 would hold up better than Advance or CC to normal wear/tear? I know Target says 6500 can be used as a finish coat, but would shooting 9000 or something similar over top make the finished product tougher? I also saw their CL100 additive that is supposed to increase scuff/wear resistance: is this something worth adding?

    I have ash cabinets now, so my prep process will probably include grain filling and BIN as a stain blocking primer. Are there any concerns with BIN or EM6500 due to the harder/less elastic nature of the coatings? I guess what I'm asking is, will I have problems with the primer or finish coats checking/cracking due to normal cabinet movement over time?

    Jim - I noticed you said your 6500 cabs lasted about 10 years. Was the finish chipping off or what happened there?
    Last edited by Mike Romo; 09-24-2016 at 11:15 AM.

  7. #7
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    Mike, the finish on my kitchen was two generations back from the EM6000... The finish itself wasn't degrading, but the abuse from kids after we adopted in 2005 (ages 6 and 10 at the time) took its toll and it just plain needed freshening up after 12 years "on the job". The Target product was on the lower cabinets since it was available in white at the time. I used a water borne product from Fuhr on the uppers since they were to be a medium sage green. They were top-coated with clear Target PSL ("premium spray lacquer") for additional protection since the doors on uppers tend to get a lot more handling than drawers in the lowers.

    You'll have to consult with Target about the add-ins...I'm not familiar with them. 'Never used them. As to overcoating the EM6500, you can use the EM6000 if you want the "same" finish so you get the burn-in benefit or use the EM9000 if you like that kind of thing. I'd probably do the former, personally.

    BM Advance is supposedly pretty durable...they recommend it for cabinets, as a matter of fact.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  8. #8
    Thanks for the info, Jim.

    Interesting about the burn-in. I guess the 9000 series would only be a "mechanical" bond instead of the "burn-in" type bond with 6000 series. When you say "if you like that kind of thing", what do you mean by that? I'm sure it's purely my own ignorance, but do mean that the 9000 would look plasticy or something?

    I'm interested in choosing the most durable, non-solvent finish I can find, so I was wondering if anybody had insight on how EM6500 performs vs a cabinet paint, like Advance.

    I'm sure you've seen paint finishes vs the EM6500: is there any visual different between paint and "lacquer"? I don't think I've ever seen lacquer, or never knew it.

  9. #9
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    BW Advance is very durable, but it takes a looooooong time to cure. Advance sprays beautifully with an air assisted or airless sprayer, and it's available in BM's full color palette, but I would chose the TC product or Aqualente first if you can get the color you want because they cure a lot faster and spray easily with convention spray guns.

    John

  10. #10
    Thanks, John. Yeah, I've been brushing Advance on my casings and crown molding and I like the paint, but you're right, it does take a minute to fully cure. Also, I tried practice spraying it once and with my cheap HVLP gun, I had to thin it out more than BM recommends. Wasn't sure how its cured state compares to the durability of Target's stuff.

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