Underground utilities?

[James Gunning]

Another thing to consider is how much will those tree roots grow and will they threaten one of the utilities. Been in this house over 20 years and had no utility problems. All deep enough that routine yard work including installing a sprinkler system didn't disturb them. Then last year I got a call from the county water utility. They said I had an exceptionally high water usage. Went around checking but could find nothing leaking. Days later I notice water running out from under sod along a front sidewalk. Turned out an oak tree planted there years ago had grown large enough that the root system was pressing on the PVC supply line to the house. It eventually cracked a fitting where the pipe made a turn and the utility claimed it leaked something like 240,000 gallons of water through that tiny crack. I tried to fight it because I still don't believe that much water could have leaked out. In the end I had to pay for the wasted water, but did get some relief from them. I relocated the pipe further away from the tree. Utility said all the pipe after the street-side in-ground meter was my responsibility.

[Stan Calow]

If you're tree will be that close to utility poles, whether its on top the lines or not, its still subject to getting removed if the need to get to the lines.

I have neighborhood cable and phone nodes in the yard and lines going through my yard, and branching off to other houses. Seems every year they need to come in and mark to do some work on one line or the other. I talk to the guy marking them when I get a chance and he tells me that his detector device is accurate plus or minus 2 feet. Thats not very confident. In planting near the lines, I've come across ones that were that far away from the markings. Most of the phone and cable lines are just laid unprotected black wires under the surface sometimes less than six inches deep.

[Jerome Stanek]

When I put my fence in I witched the lines as they belong to me. 2 water 1 sewer 1 electric and 1 low voltage that I had to cross. We always hand dig around lines

[Myk Rian]

If you're tree will be that close to utility poles, whether its on top the lines or not, its still subject to getting removed if the need to get to the lines.

I have neighborhood cable and phone nodes in the yard and lines going through my yard, and branching off to other houses. Seems every year they need to come in and mark to do some work on one line or the other.

5 years ago a crew came through and lopped off the top of a maple tree under the wires. This year I told them to take it down. I saved the bottom section of the trunk to make a table. It'll be sitting on the front porch for a few years to dry out.

[Jim Becker]

Wade, I didn't read through the thread so this might already have been mentioned, but even though that one line was already marked for a neighbors' project, you need to do the "one call" thing and get them out to mark for "your" project to be sure you're covered. The "one call" folks may be able to indicate to you what the depth is based on records, too. Don't dig until you have done this yourself.

[Malcolm McLeod]

Not a lot different to add, but call locator! It's free!

In TX, the (buried) electric service to house has to be 48 inches below grade. (I did NOT dig this by hand.)

[Lee Schierer]

Just be aware that when the tree grows to mature size if it gets too close to the pole, the utility company will come by one day and trim the tree to remai clear of the pole without regard to how it looks when they are done.

[Bill Orbine]

I am going to plant a tree near a utility pole. It is several feet off the direct line from the pole to my house. The gas line was just marked (don't know why, but when my neighbor had it done they did mine also...) and it is near where I would expect the electric/cable to be. 3 years ago I had some landscaping professionally done in the same area and they didn't mark the electric, saying it was privately installed and they don't know where it is. The landscaper thought it was safe and planted 3 trees, but I am anal about these things.

1) How deep are these likely to have been buried in 2005?
2) Is it likely the electric and cable are in the same trench as the gas? (they all go the same place, and come from about the same place)
3) Are electric and cable sturdy enough to survive being hit by a shovel?

I know you haven't seen it, and things are often different than what they should be; just asking what is normal.

This is like asking if it's safe to reach down into the throat of a running tablesaw with a blade. Call 811..... not 911!

[Gary Cunningham]

[QUOTE=Myk Rian;2608745]Is anyone willing to be electrocuted finding out

[Joe Kieve]

Like Bill said...call 811. http://call811.com/

[Steve Peterson]

Out here in California, there are small signs all over the place saying to call before you dig. The utilities do not charge and you are not liable if you hit a line that they did not mark. It seems like an obvious thing to do.

Steve

[Wade Lippman]

As I said in my first post, I had it marked 3years ago. Except the electric,which they had no record of. But I tried again. It was identical, as you would expect. So I learned nothing

I will make 3 assumptions...
1 the electric runs in the same ditch as everything else,well away from the work area.
2 even if it doesn't, it is probably too deep to matter
3 even if it doesn't the shovel probably can't hurt the conduit

[Jim Becker]

While the results "should" be the same as previous marking, it's important to make the call to insure you're covered for liability "this time". Sometimes they come out multiple times for the same job because different trades called it in.

[John K Jordan]

As I said in my first post, I had it marked 3years ago. Except the electric,which they had no record of. But I tried again. It was identical, as you would expect. So I learned nothing

I will make 3 assumptions...
1 the electric runs in the same ditch as everything else,well away from the work area.
2 even if it doesn't, it is probably too deep to matter
3 even if it doesn't the shovel probably can't hurt the conduit

Wade,

I just saw this and didn't read all the posts, so if this was covered, sorry. My take: your logic scares me!
- You can't assume any specific depth, even if the code requires it.
- You can't assume there is continuous conduit.
- You can't assume any lines are in the same trench.
- You can't even assume things run in a straight line between end points.
This you can assume: hitting the wrong thing can ruin your day or more.

I live on a 27 acre farm and all utilities are underground. This is what I know from my own experience:

The path of buried lines may vary. My experience: I have 600ft of underground power from the property line to my house as well as water, phone, and cable. All the utilities are buried in different trenches. All are at different depths, from 3" for cable TV to 24" for water and deeper for power. (The minimum depth for water depends on the frost line in your climate.) None are run in straight lines for several reasons. Some even make seemingly random S-curves that might make no sense at first. I even put a big curve in the line to my shop to give the underground power line in the next paragraph plenty of room.

The required depth of electrical lines may depend on the voltage and amperage. The actual depth may be different. My experience: the first 600' of my underground electrical line is 7200 volts to a transformer about 50' from my house. I have no idea of the amperage available but I'm sure it is enough to kill 300 people at once. That 600' of line is SUPPOSED to be buried 48" deep because if you hit 7200 volts you die. However, the guy marking the line got confusing readings. I ran into one of the utility guys who helped lay the line over 30 years before and he told me the story: the crew hit solid rock and the line is less than 18" deep in places. Assume nothing.

BTW, that 7200v line was shorted last year through a nearly invisible pinhole at a weakened spot in the insulation. It made a loud explosion and we were without power for most of the day while it was dug up and repaired. What if your shovel just happened to hit a weakened spot in an electrical cable?

You cannot assume the conduit is continuous underground. My experience: our 7200 volt line is not in conduit. The TV cable is in a very tough, flexible conduit. When I dug a trench and buried my own 220v line 250' to the shop I used continuous conduit. When I buried electrical line 1000' down a field I did not use continuous conduit underground but I DID install conduit into the ground on both ends, straight down to an ell then about 3' horizontally. I did this to protect the wire from damage at the surface but it was not needed through the field. (For underground lines I always place a continuous red warning tape a few inches above the cable, add 6-12" of dirt, tamp, lay down another length of warning tape, then fill to the surface. My idea is I'll dig up the tape first which will show me exactly where the line is. Don't assume anyone else does this.)

Bottom line, don't assume anything. The safe way to dig around underground electrical lines is to first turn the power off. If the power is fed by a meter or utility transformer the utility company will gladly turn it off then back on again when you are done. When modifying the service entrance when I was running power to the shop I had them kill the power at the property line.

As I'm sure others mentioned, call the OneCall number and get it marked. That still won't prevent you from hitting something but it will remove your financial liability if you do. Around here, some of the utilities will not bother to even come out and mark, probably assuming in the long run they save money even if they have to fix an occasional break, but you are still protected if you call and dig when they tell you to. The electrical people ALWAYS mark and are usually the first. Note there is a expiration time limit on the marks - after a certain date/time your liability returns even if nothing has changed. Always call.

Also, some companies will not mark the private portion of the utilities, for example at my place, any of the 600' of pipe from the water meter to the house. The landowner is responsible for anything past the meter anyway so they don't care if you dig up the water line. Sometimes a pleasant guy who is not in a big hurry will mark other lines for you if you ask nicely. Also, I've met a few who have their own equipment and can be hired to mark private lines on their days off.

JKJ

[Jerome Stanek]

Way back when I worked planting trees I hit a phone line in the back yard of a house. They ran the line along the property line across the back yard back down the other property line and into the side of the house. never would have thought they would do it that way as they should have just cane up the one side and into the house.