Underground utilities?

[Dan Friedrichs]

When I put my fence in I witched the lines as they belong to me. 2 water 1 sewer 1 electric and 1 low voltage that I had to cross. We always hand dig around lines

"witching" is completely bogus, and has been scientifically disproven...

[John K Jordan]

"witching" is completely bogus, and has been scientifically disproven...

That may generate some discussion. I watched an elderly gentleman use two rods to locate my grandmother's grave. In my skepticism I asked if it worked for anyone. With the rods in my own hands they absolutely turned and crossed when I walked over a known grave, felt like they were alive. My brother, also highly skeptical, tried it with the same result. Hard to explain...

JKJ

[Dan Friedrichs]

That may generate some discussion.

I don't mean for it to - my point was that the OP should not rely on it to locate electrical wires

There have been numerous well-controlled scientific studies that have shown it's no better than chance. If you already "knew" the location of the grave, you likely (perhaps unintentionally) allowed the rods to move slightly - something known as the "ideomotor" effect.

Not only does it fail to exhibit any positive results in a controlled study, it also has absolutely no basis in logic. We know a good deal about the physical universe - what mysterious, previously-unknown force causes dead bodies to exert a force - through feet of dirt - on sticks, rods, or any other random object someone may be holding? Total hocus pocus.

[John K Jordan]

There have been numerous well-controlled scientific studies that have shown it's no better than chance. If you already "knew" the location of the grave, you likely (perhaps unintentionally) allowed the rods to move slightly - something known as the "ideomotor" effect.

You think as I do - it does not make sense. Yes, hocus-pocus. Nonsense. Bunk. Yes, I've read studies and comments and all logical argument says the same. I hadn't experienced it myself we still wouldn't believe it!

I was not about to believe and I STILL would not believe it if I wasn't there (my background is in science, engineering, and software development - all quite logical endeavors). I know a bit about forces, fields, electromagnetism and the like.

Since even after we tried it on that spot we still couldn't believe it, my brother and I walked over overgrown ground with several marked graves but without seeing the markers. All places where the rods moved turned out to have grave markers. We did experiments with eyes closed and over marked graves and unmarked areas. And the rods didn't move "slightly". They suddenly and quickly went from straight ahead (parallel) to crossed. It was, to be sure, extremely freaky. Our sister was there and couldn't believe it either. We all suspected some sort of sham but could see no way it could be pulled off and no reason for it. We didn't WANT to believe it. If I had been by myself I might think now I had dreamed or hallucinated the whole thing.

These rods were copper, extended maybe 18" horizontally and each had an L-shaped bend on one end for "handle".

The kind (and feeble) older gentleman who brought out the rods was the caretaker for the cemetery. He said he'd been trying to quit that job for years but the church couldn't find anyone else who would do it. He only went back to his shed to get the rods after we couldn't find a grave marker in the designated plot. Besides locating unmarked graves, he said he always used the rods to make sure there was not already an old unmarked grave where a new grave was about to be dug.

The only logical thing I could imagine had to do with electrical fields but nothing I and associates (at the laboratory where I worked) could imagine made sense either. To me it is one of those strange things that may never be explained. Our sister did do some research on returning home and said all she found was references to the occult that scared her. Go figure. I've puzzled about this for many years!

JKJ

[Dan Friedrichs]

All I can say is that a few people doing a few experiments is bound to give "positive" results sometimes. The chances of flipping a coin and getting "heads" are 50/50, yet sometimes you can flip a coin 20 times and get 20 "heads". Doesn't mean that there is magic or electrical fields or anything - it just means the experimental design and/or conditions are returning results that don't represent the truth.

People HAVE done controlled experiments, where they bring in "expert dowsers", "hide" objects underground at specific locations, etc, and they have found that "witching" is no better than chance.

[richard b miller]

call a local engineering firm and ask for the number for the utilities locator. here in alabama, they also do it for free. it might take a day or two for them to come out and mark your lines.

[Jerome Stanek]

Witching may be bunk for you but I have been using it for years for my friend who is an excavator. Most times I have never been on the land before but it works for me.

[Kev Williams]

Here in Utah (and I notice Arizona) we have a thing called "Blue Stakes", which is a 'utility notification service', phone number 811, that we are supposed to call -by law, I think- before digging in our yards. You call, they come out let you know exactly where everything- gas, water, sewer, electric, cable, phone, fiber optic- IS in your yard. They run TV ads all the time...

[Ken Combs]

3 years ago I had some landscaping professionally done in the same area and they didn't mark the electric, saying it was privately installed and they don't know where it is. The landscaper thought it was safe and planted 3 trees, but I am anal about these things.

In my area the locating service is free and covers all utility installed services . I think that is pretty much standard in most if not all states. But, note the utility installation. If you meter is on your house, the utility probably installed the service. If your meter is on the pole, the line from the meter to the house is likely a owner/contracter installed item.

Maybe ask for a locate for phone, gas, cable etc. Then, offer a tip to the tech for the electric locate.

[Jerome Stanek]

I have a gas line that the 811 companies can not find also some water lines that the neighbor has along with my waterline. there are no tracer wires for these so I end up witching for the neighborhood. most neighbors won't believe me when I tell them there is a line right here and when they dig there is a line. I witched many electric lines in the old Revco stores. One electrician told me I was full of XXit when I told him there was a line right where I needed an outlet he said he put the lines in and it was over about 2 feet. He dug the outlet in and said I told you so but he needed to go just a little deeper so the outlet would be flush with the floor. He stabbed his shove in and cut the line he said wasn't there.

[Larry Frank]

I do not believe in witching but others swear by it.

I know that if I have the Indiana 811 come out and mark the lines I am covered for liability with the utility companies. If I have someone else do witching, then the liability is mine.

[Jerome Stanek]

I do not believe in witching but others swear by it.

I know that if I have the Indiana 811 come out and mark the lines I am covered for liability with the utility companies. If I have someone else do witching, then the liability is mine.

what if there is no tracer wire in the line. My gas line does not have one and they can not trace it

[Jim Becker]

what if there is no tracer wire in the line. My gas line does not have one and they can not trace it

I have that issue here. They "trace" it via measurements off a diagram they obtain/have from PECO, the gas supplier. It's "close", but one must take care. When our addition was going on and an extension from the meter to that side of the house had to be dug, the main line (which is surprisingly tiny from the street was about a foot off the measured location and got nicked. PECO promptly fixed it gratis because the 811 (OneCall in PA) location service had been done and logged.

[Kev Williams]

I BELIEVE in witching, I've seen it done many times, and I've actually done it. First time I saw it was when a county water guy needed to find the main underground so as to run a line to my uncle's cabin he was building. He used metal rods with the one end bent into a 2x6" or so rectangle as a hand hold. He walked across the dirt road and the rods swung out just about the middle of the road. "That was the easy one"... Then he had to find the capped line that teed off the main. He walked along the road edge until the rods swung again, then verified it coming from the other direction. The line was right there 5' down. I asked him how it worked-- "I have no clue, it just does"...

One day for fun I bent a couple of coat hangers, and tried to locate a water line I knew was somewhere in the vicinity. Blew my mind when the wires started swinging.

For those who don't believe, I have one word: Magnetism. We all know it's there, and we couldn't live without it. And we take it for granted even though it's completely invisible to all our senses...

[Dan Friedrichs]

For those who don't believe, I have one word: Magnetism. We all know it's there, and we couldn't live without it. And we take it for granted even though it's completely invisible to all our senses...

So why does it "work" with sticks? Are sticks magnetic?

And how does a buried pipe produce a magnetic field? (hint: it doesn't. We can measure magnetic fields)