Very Coarse Crystolon / Siox Stones Guzzling Up Oil?

[Patrick Chase]

Patrick; if you re-read #8, I made no mention of Norton using petroleum jelly to prefill their stones. My quote came direct from the Norton Website.

http://www.knifecenter.com/info/sharpening-with-Norton

I have no idea where you source most of the information you post.

It cant all be from practical experience.

Stewie;

As mentioned above I have filled a Crystolon with Vaseline in the past, so that much is practical experience, but I've found one of the places where I got the idea.

FWW July/Aug 1993, pp 72-75, "A New Angle on Whetstones". It sayeth:

"If your man-made stone seems to con-
tinuously absorb oil, it means your stone
wasn't filled. Filling is a process of baking
in a petroleum jelly-like grease, which
makes it easier to keep a coat of oil on the
surface of the stone. If your stone isn't
filled, you can let it soak in an oil bath un-
til bubbles stop rising from the stone, or
you can try baking some petroleum jelly
into your stone in your own oven. Im-
merse the stone in petroleum jelly and
then heat it for about an hour at 200 °F. Re-
move the stone and let it cool. Don't try
this with a natural stone because the heat
will destroy it."

I know I've seen another reference that states that Norton fills with jelly/grease in manufacturing, but I can't find it.

[Stewie Simpson]

Patrick; did you note of the comments made by Warren Mickley in post #14. Here's a reminder.

I have the box from a Carborundum stone my father bought around 1950. The directions on the box say:

If stone cuts too rapidly, temper by soaking the stone in a pan of hot petroleum jelly, filling the pores of the stone.

I remember asking my father what "temper" meant around 1960. The Carborundum Co. silicon carbide stones predated Norton's Crystolon stones by about twenty years. Forty years ago the Carborundum stones were a little softer and cut more rapidly than Crystolon. Today Carborundum and Norton are both owned by St. Gobain.

[Luke Dupont]

Stewie, I appreciate the helpful intentions, but...

Patrick's solution addresses my problem.
Yours does not (if you are arguing against using vaseline or some equivelent).

I know to use oil on my stones. My problem is that they (well, the two particular ones in question) continuously soak up the oil like a sponge and immediately become bone dry, no matter how much oil I put on them. Patrick's answer provides a logical solution that has yet to be ruled out.

Logic trumps any specs or manufacturer advice that you can find. Manufacturers do not include all possible relevant information in their product's description. Sometimes, for whatever reason, a stone may be in a condition which is less than optimal, and un-predicted or predictable but simply unaddressed. In that case, one has to use make a logical hypothesis, and test it. Moreover, frankly, manufacturers are usually far too conservative and narrow when it comes to advice regarding the best use of their product, because they know that people can be irresponsible or incompetent and don't want to be blamed for it. Baking a stone in vaseline definitely is not something that a manufacturer would recommend for liability reasons, even if it is a perfectly valid solution.

I can appreciate your point that it may possibly inhibit the cutting action, but currently, I cannot even get oil to stay on the stone long enough to carry the metal particles away, and it's the metal particles which are doing the most to inhibit cutting in the stone's current state. So on whole, I am not concerned, as the net effect is still likely to be very positive.

[Stewie Simpson]

Luke; with a greater depth of knowledge, you would understand that the viscosity of the oil your trying to load your dry stones with is way to thin. Good luck with your stones. Its not my problem.

Petroleum jelly is also known as white petrolatum and, at room temperature, it is odorless. The compound melts at 99 degrees and is flammable when in liquid form. It is often used to quicken the healing of wounds, yet has no medicinal effect. When applied to a wound, petroleum jelly provides a protective coating that doesn't allow unwanted bacteria to cause an infection. The jelly is often applied to burns and was marketed as a burn treatment when it was first discovered. It is also found in a variety of cosmetics, lotions and hair pomade. Its qualities reduce moisture loss and prevent chapped and dry skin.

Make petroleum jelly at home by melting 1 ounce of beeswax in a double-boiler or microwave. Once melted, add 1 1/2 cups of baby oil or mineral oil and stir until the mixture is cool. Store the concoction in a clean container with a lid, and keep it in refrigerator or pantry.

regards Stewie;

[Luke Dupont]

Luke; with a greater depth of knowledge, you would understand that the viscosity of the oil your trying to load your dry stones with is way to thin. Good luck with your stones. Its not my problem.

Petroleum jelly is also known as white petrolatum and, at room temperature, it is odorless. The compound melts at 99 degrees and is flammable when in liquid form. It is often used to quicken the healing of wounds, yet has no medicinal effect. When applied to a wound, petroleum jelly provides a protective coating that doesn't allow unwanted bacteria to cause an infection. The jelly is often applied to burns and was marketed as a burn treatment when it was first discovered. It is also found in a variety of cosmetics, lotions and hair pomade. Its qualities reduce moisture loss and prevent chapped and dry skin.

Make petroleum jelly at home by melting 1 ounce of beeswax in a double-boiler or microwave. Once melted, add 1 1/2 cups of baby oil or mineral oil and stir until the mixture is cool. Store the concoction in a clean container with a lid, and keep it in refrigerator or pantry.

regards Stewie;

Oh, I see; you were recommending petroleum jelly over vaseline. Gotcha. My bad.

Well, you might be right, but I know one way to find out for sure. After all, if the vaseline (which is the easier option) fails, it's not as if I can't boil the stone and try again with petroleum jelly.

[Patrick Chase]

Oh, I see; you were recommending petroleum jelly over vaseline. Gotcha. My bad.

Well, you might be right, but I know one way to find out for sure. After all, if the vaseline (which is the easier option) fails, it's not as if I can't boil the stone and try again with petroleum jelly.

Vaseline is a brand of petroleum jelly. You can obviously make it as well though.

[Stewie Simpson]

Luke; someone before you has soaked those stones of yours in a solvent wash and destroyed their oil fill. Just get on ebay and buy some cheapo 2nd hand crystolon stones off ebay, before you end up burning your parents house down. Vaseline and petroleum jelly are highly volatile when melted at liquid form.

And no; I am not recommending you use petroleum jelly or vasaline on your oil stones. It will impede the cut of your stones, as Warren and I have already pointed out in previous comments.

Here you go Luke; take you pick on cheap 2nd hand sharpening stones on ebay usa; http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_saca..._ipg=200&rt=nc

Flattening hard Norton Crystolon stones is another subject that others can offer you better advice on.

Stewie;

[Stewie Simpson]

Vaseline is a brand of petroleum jelly. You can obviously make it as well though.

Vaseline and Petroleum Jelly Constituents

Vaseline is made of pure petroleum jelly mixed with minerals and microcrystalline wax that make it smoother. Petroleum jelly is sometimes referred to as petrolatum, white petrolatum and white parrafin. When chemically derived from natural petroleum, petroleum jelly consists of a translucent, semisolid mix of hydrocarbons.

[Derek Cohen]

Patrick.....

I have no idea where you source most of the information you post.

It cant all be from practical experience.

Stewie;

This is the pot calling the kettle black.

Stewie, when you post, please cite your Internet references directly (not later). Otherwise it appears as if you are plagiarising the content of websites.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Stewie Simpson]

your not getting a bite from me DEREK.

[Derek Cohen]

your not getting a bite from me DEREK.

I am not after conversation with you, Stewie. It is a request.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Luke Dupont]

Let's try to tone it down a bit. I'd prefer this thread not get locked. We're discussing how to recondition a stone here. I asked this question as much out of curiosity and for knowledge's sake as anything else, as I'm pretty content with the India that I have for material removal.

When I have some free time, I will probably try the vaseline thing and report back with the results. Don't worry; as I don't live with my parents, it's very unlikely that I'll be burning their house down. I will seriously heed the warning about vaseline being volatile and take prudent precautions.

We all *should* be concerned with objective reality, rather than defending our perceptions or ego, etc.

And, personally, I think we should all take pleasure in being proven wrong. This is something I try to practice for myself, at least. If you don't put your perceptions to the test and allow them to be proven wrong (potentially!), then all you're doing is constructing a nice protected fantasy land; a bubble of your own subjective reality, which most likely won't align all that well with the real world. But, as long as you defend it, you'll have no way of realizing or admitting any differently, because you will only take actions and interpret outside information in a way that validates your preexisting perceptions.

Now, I guess that's all fine and dandy if that's how you'd prefer to go about life, but it doesn't interest me.

I'd rather screw up, make a fool of myself, and observe reality. So, let's test this burning-the-house-down-and-ruining-my-stone hypothesis! If you don't hear back from me within a week or two, you'll either know what happened, or you'll be left misinterpreting my absent laziness. You're free to believe whichever narrative suits your liking

[Pat Barry]

[QUOTE=Luke Dupont;2609839

Patrick's solution addresses my problem.
Yours does not (if you are arguing against using vaseline or some equivelent).

I know to use oil on my stones. My problem is that they (well, the two particular ones in question) continuously soak up the oil like a sponge and immediately become bone dry, no matter how much oil I put on them. Patrick's answer provides a logical solution that has yet to be ruled out.

Logic trumps any specs or manufacturer advice that you can find. Manufacturers do not include all possible relevant information in their product's description. Sometimes, for whatever reason, a stone may be in a condition which is less than optimal, and un-predicted or predictable but simply unaddressed. In that case, one has to use make a logical hypothesis, and test it. Moreover, frankly, manufacturers are usually far too conservative and narrow when it comes to advice regarding the best use of their product, because they know that people can be irresponsible or incompetent and don't want to be blamed for it. Baking a stone in vaseline definitely is not something that a manufacturer would recommend for liability reasons, even if it is a perfectly valid solution.

I can appreciate your point that it may possibly inhibit the cutting action, but currently, I cannot even get oil to stay on the stone long enough to carry the metal particles away, and it's the metal particles which are doing the most to inhibit cutting in the stone's current state. So on whole, I am not concerned, as the net effect is still likely to be very positive.[/QUOTE]
Luke, what is your background? Are you an engineering student or practicing engineer? What discipline? What expertise do you have to suggest logic trumps the manufacturers specs? Just curious since it seems only recently that you started here stating that you had passion but no working experience. Thanks

[Patrick Chase]

Stewie, I appreciate the helpful intentions, but...

Patrick's solution addresses my problem.
Yours does not (if you are arguing against using vaseline or some equivelent).

I know to use oil on my stones. My problem is that they (well, the two particular ones in question) continuously soak up the oil like a sponge and immediately become bone dry, no matter how much oil I put on them. Patrick's answer provides a logical solution that has yet to be ruled out.

Logic trumps any specs or manufacturer advice that you can find. Manufacturers do not include all possible relevant information in their product's description. Sometimes, for whatever reason, a stone may be in a condition which is less than optimal, and un-predicted or predictable but simply unaddressed. In that case, one has to use make a logical hypothesis, and test it. Moreover, frankly, manufacturers are usually far too conservative and narrow when it comes to advice regarding the best use of their product, because they know that people can be irresponsible or incompetent and don't want to be blamed for it. Baking a stone in vaseline definitely is not something that a manufacturer would recommend for liability reasons, even if it is a perfectly valid solution.

I can appreciate your point that it may possibly inhibit the cutting action, but currently, I cannot even get oil to stay on the stone long enough to carry the metal particles away, and it's the metal particles which are doing the most to inhibit cutting in the stone's current state. So on whole, I am not concerned, as the net effect is still likely to be very positive.

I think that's a little strong, Luke.

Stewie is trying to help you, just like me. He has far more experience than either of us and you should pay attention to what he says (I do, hence my willingness to grind out photo after photo in the "needle files" thread), even if you end up disagreeing. IMO the etiquette in a case like this is to thank *everybody* who helped you and then do whatever you've decided.

[Luke Dupont]

I think that's a little strong, Luke.

Stewie is trying to help you, just like me. He has far more experience than either of us and you should pay attention to what he says (I do, hence my willingness to grind out photo after photo in the "needle files" thread), even if you end up disagreeing. IMO the etiquette in a case like this is to thank *everybody* who helped you and then do whatever you've decided.

Mmm, sorry. I think you're right. Sometimes I get frustrated with what I perceive to be inflexible thinking, and I guess my writing style can come off as overly direct.

Sorry, Stewie. I do honestly appreciate your help, and despite all that I wrote, I recognize that you might very well be correct on many points.

In this case, I'm persuaded otherwise, which is why I am pursuing a different course of action, but I'll definitely stay open to new information and keep your words of caution in mind.