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Thread: The Convex Conundrum - The Three Principles of Using Japanese Finish Planes

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pat Barry View Post
    I appreciate your posting Stan and I think they are spot on from both practical and technical perspectives. Everything about the degree of camber on the finish blade and the process of achieving a true and finished surface is correct and well explained. I do however find the lack of finish on interior woodwork, for example: cabinets, tables, chairs, etc to be very puzzling. While I'm sure there are examples to be found that are right off the plane, it is hard to accept that finishes are not applied to improve both the surface durability and beauty. Surfaces that are touched or handled by human beings will become tainted over time due to everyday contact with sweaty / oily fingertips for example and these will stain. A fine surface such as a dining room table would be ruined without at least a wax protection. Would you agree?
    Pat:

    You are very astute. The bare wood finish is most common for architectural work, both interior and exterior, including joinery.

    For example, the house I am currently renting is about 25 years old, and has wooden pantry doors in the kitchen. Side by side doors on bottom and top, a total of 8 feet high, and made of Akita sugi cedar, a slightly reddish brown softwood commonly used as construction lumber. The boards are full of knots, but have not warped due to multiple cross battens on the inside secured with glue and staple. I did not make these, and they are not especially well made. They were not finished with a handplane, but are right off the thickness planer. But the point I want to make is that they were not sanded, and no chemical finish of any kind was applied. The wood around the knobs is scratched by fingernails and has some oil stains. My wife has never cleaned these doors in the nearly 5 years we have lived in this house.

    These defects do not bother me or my wife. I know that if the doors had been sanded and painted a pretty white when new, they would look a lot worse and be a lot dirtier about now than the unfinished wood does. I like the bare wood, and while I would not have tolerated dings and scratches and stains when they were new and smelled wonderful, the defects do not make the doors ugly or seem dirty in our eyes.

    But, if we wanted to clean them, a damp rag and some elbow grease would make them look spiffy. Not so if the wood had been sanded.

    If push comes to shove, I could always plane these doors to refresh them, but I won't.

    I point is that everything made of wood we use daily gets dirty and dinged over time, and that bare wood holds up pretty well in many, but certainly not all, circumstances.

    In the case of furniture and countertops and light fixtures, bare wood is still an option, but for the reasons you mentioned, most people prefer a chemical finish. High-build film finishes are not all that popular in Japan, I think. People still want to feel the grain. My dining room table is made of solid nara, very similar to white oak, and has a urethane finish soaked into the grain with no apparent film on top. It is a good finish with nothing to chip or scratch off and has endured a tremendous amount of abuse from my careless wife. But eventually she will burn it, and then I will plane it to freshen the surface. Maybe I will leave it bare. I will not sand it.

    Stan

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Mueller View Post
    Thanks again, Stanley. The adze and spear textured work is very appealing to me. Gives me some great ideas for a rustic piece I have in mind. May see if a similar look could be achieved with wooden rounds/hollows and/or a custom shoulder plane blade. Perhaps just a gouge. Something to play with over the upcoming winter.
    If you are working in softwoods, you should definitely give a yariganna a try. They are a lot of fun and create a unique surface. Not sure if you could imitate it with a drawknife...

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Holbrook View Post
    Thanks for the info. and pictures Stan.

    The spear plane is interesting. I suspect it may require a refined skill set similar to or greater than the Adze. Like you mention the adze requires practice for good results. I have a small, for single hand use, and larger one, for use with both hands, with curved outside bevels. Used for the major stock removal in chair seats, bowls, serving dishes...I am still working on the handles and various methods for getting the most from them. The curved heads need to strike surfaces at just the right angle, which often translates into: more curved complicated handles, ways to grip those handles and ways to hold the work steady. The handle on the spear plane appears to require a handle on the opposite side of the complexity scale.

    Attachment 345394
    Mike:

    Very cool adzes! I had never thought to use an adze for making raised panels!

    Using an adze for finish work is quite a skill. BTW, Makita makes an electric planer that cuts a surface that imitates adze work.

    Here is a link to a video of a guy using a yariganna. Worth a peek.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZarAYS0ZlM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74yLuBUNGPQ

    Stan

    shigefusa-yaei-12-19-3.jpgyari-0011.jpgYariganna 2.jpgk0016-3b.jpgYariganna Surface.jpgyariganna 3.jpg

  4. #34
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    Pat; do a google search on Shou Sugi Ban.

    Stewie;

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    Shees Stan, you don't know how to make raised panels with an adze??? Ohhk I may have been too lazy to move my work off my bench for the picture. Trying to re-build some calluses and toughen up the skin on my hands gradually by planing panels regularly.

    The yariganna video was great! It looks like one of those could do precise detailed work compared to most of the tools I use now. Kind of a plane/chisel/gouge. I Believe I have lots of textured surfaces in my future. As soon as I get one I will post pictures of how to make raised panels with one.

  6. #36
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    Stanley, At times I have trouble expressing what I mean to say. I just want to know how the tool works, how it is prepared. It is a different tool than a western plane. I really don't need to know that someone can take bigger shavings with a bailey style plane and a chip breaker. That's just for myself of course, The things like taking thin shavings makes the wood behave different makes sense to me and that is something I did not know until now. Please keep going, I'm sure to learn more.
    Jim

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Pallas View Post
    Stanley, At times I have trouble expressing what I mean to say. I just want to know how the tool works, how it is prepared. It is a different tool than a western plane. I really don't need to know that someone can take bigger shavings with a bailey style plane and a chip breaker. That's just for myself of course, The things like taking thin shavings makes the wood behave different makes sense to me and that is something I did not know until now. Please keep going, I'm sure to learn more.
    Jim
    Jim:

    I am not sure how to answer.

    The post is about Japanese planes, but nearly everything applies to any other style of finish plane. I am not suggesting a Japanese plane is what must be used. I'm not encouraging anyone to take that red pill until they are really ready.

    How the tool works is a difficult subject, but I will try to summarize the critical points.

    We have already talked about the two types of shapes of the blade's cutting edge. Even a simple straight cutting edge is something most guys really never learn to do. The curved cutting edge is not something most guys can accomplish right away, but takes time, and practice, and hit and miss experimentation. It is worth learning. I enjoyed learning it.

    The angle of the blade in the plane, and the angle to which the blade is sharpened, need to work well with both your plane and the wood you will be planing. There is no one-size-does-it-all when it comes to finish planing. That said, the range that will work for most woods is wide.

    The blade has to be pretty sharp with no major defects at the cutting edge. A 6,000 - 8,000 grit finish stone is adequate for most practical applications. Nothing wrong at all with going finer, I certainly do when working in the shop, but returns diminish rapidly after 8,000.

    If it is a Western steel-bodied plane, the sole needs to be very flat and without wind. You need planar contact immediately in front of the mouth right up to the opening. This is absolutely critical.

    If it is a Japanese plane, you need planar contact at the front, and especially full and even contact immediately in front of the mouth right up to the opening. This is absolutely critical. Some people like contact at the rear of the sole too, for a total of 3 contact points, but this is counter-productive in a finish plane.

    How to achieve these contact points and how to fettle a wooden-bodied plane is more than I can get into here. I suggest you see Brian Holcomb's blog for more details.

    Unless you are using excellent wood, and really want to go exotic and try out a single blade plane, then you absolutely must get the chipbreaker, or subblade, fitted correctly and polished.

    Lastly, you must adjust the blade so it projects from the mouth evenly and just the right amount. For really thin shavings, it is closer to something you feel than something you can clearly see. This too takes time and practice. It can be frustrating, especially with a Bailey style plane with the slop in the mechanical adjusters, but with effort, the techniques can and should be learned.

    I hope this helps.

    Stan

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Holbrook View Post
    Shees Stan, you don't know how to make raised panels with an adze??? Ohhk I may have been too lazy to move my work off my bench for the picture. Trying to re-build some calluses and toughen up the skin on my hands gradually by planing panels regularly.

    The yariganna video was great! It looks like one of those could do precise detailed work compared to most of the tools I use now. Kind of a plane/chisel/gouge. I Believe I have lots of textured surfaces in my future. As soon as I get one I will post pictures of how to make raised panels with one.
    I have much to learn from you about using an adze for cabinetwork!

    A yariganna is not really a precise tool. The archaeologists over here say that, until the plane came over from China via the Korean peninsula, the yariganna was used to smooth out and finish the wood right after the adze work was done. I assume they did some pretty precise work with the adze. Also, realize that the yariganna was used back before most lumber was sawed, but rather riven, and the grain was very cooperative. It can be a difficult tool when the grain is curly.

    Good luck!

  9. #39
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    I'll second that, the yariganna are a lot of fun. I had the chance to try one out at NYC KEZ and it was really enjoyable to use.
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanley Covington View Post
    I suppose that the Kezuroukai is to woodworking what NASCAR is to moonshine delivery.
    Nah, the planes used for Kezuroukai can also be used for woodworking. Bootleggers needed to make right turns after all.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Chase View Post
    Nah, the planes used for Kezuroukai can also be used for woodworking. Bootleggers needed to make right turns after all.
    Pat:

    2 points!

    Help me think of a better analogy. The idea is that the purpose of a finish plane in the real world is to create a smooth surface on wood, with shavings created as a by-product, while the purpose of the kezuroukai plane is to make ultra-thin shavings, with the wood's smooth surface created as a by-product.

    There must be something similar.

    Stan

  12. #42
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    All I'm going to say is Watkins Glen.
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Holcombe View Post
    All I'm going to say is Watkins Glen.

    And Sonoma!

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pat Barry View Post
    And Sonoma!
    Exceptions that prove the rule.

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