Toward a philosophy of joinery.

[Robert Engel]

Staying a several B&B's with antique furniture I noticed much detail paid to the facade but not the interior. Frankly, quite shocked to see dovetail drawers I would have thrown in the trash and nails holding runners and kickers in place. Only to find out this was typical of the day in cabinetmaker's shops.

To the point: in the middle of a dresser build now working on the drawers.

If I actually was capable of doing DT's as some of the more accomplished people here, I wouldn't be able to tell if they were done by hand or by machine. Philosophically, The little gaps and oversaws are the indicators this dresser by hand. Wow how does that take the pressure off and make my ww'ing experiences rather enjoyable instead of criticizing myself and getting depressed.

Not so say I slop it together like some of those antiques, OK?

So now I'm face with a bit of a dilemma. After completing 4 drawers, the next day my shoulder and both elbows tell me I've got a row to hoe with 6 more deep drawers to do.

I built a jig and used my TS with a 7 degree bevel blade to cut the tails. They are too perfect! I find myself varying the width of the pins just a bit and will have to cut the pins by hand.

And my wife says "you're the only one who will care about it."

[Glen Canaday]

She's right

Most of your customers - be they paying or family or really anyone but you - won't even look at the quality of the DT at the end of your drawers.

And as far as those antiques, it is a safe bet that you might be the first to look!

[mike holden]

Build your furniture to please yourself and your client (self, spouse, family, customer)
The guys who made those antiques were building to put food on the table, not to please someone 200 years down the road.

I strive to do the best I can, and then move on. The polished appearance of machine joinery is one of the reasons I work by hand, mostly. I use power when useful.

Just my thoughts,
Mike

[Stanley Covington]

It sounds like angst. But this forum is mostly guys who don't give a rodent's fundament about feelings, and are focused on fixing problems, so here's my take.

You are posting your angst for the world to see, which tells me that you haven't figured out the goals for your woodworking. You need to get those pinned down before you pick up another handsaw.

If you are a professional, then budget, schedule, client's specs, and your own standards govern, so the goals are fairly clear cut.

If you are a hobbyist, then you need to figure out why you are going to the trouble of working wood, and what you want to accomplish. When these things are clear in your mind, everything else will fall in place, until it doesn't anymore.

Now I suppose you will turn around and say you already have all this figured out. If that is the case, then why bother?

Stan

[Brian Holcombe]

I agree with Stan.

I'll add a few more comments. In today's age people compare our work with handtools against what they see that is done mostly with machine tools and maybe fitted by hand. It's not a fair comparison but it is a common comparison. What that does is setup handtoolers to feel that they need to strive for absolute perfection in order to show their work.

People getting a start in handtools also make the mistake of comparing themselves with people who've been using these tools for many more years. It takes a change in process to move from machine to hand and in doing so you'll expose yourself to errors not previously experienced even though you may have been woodworking for many years.

It's a tall hill to climb, and the more that you climb the taller it gets.

[Prashun Patel]

I have been doing dovetails by machine, by hand, and by hybrid means. Each situation and project suggests a different approach. I don't judge others' choices, and therefore try (feebly) not to judge my own.

Even if you can do Holcombe/Cohen style dovetails purely by hand, you can ALWAYS do them better, faster, more efficiently. (Talking out of school alert): The Japanese Shokunin is marked by not only great crafstmanship and execution, but swiftness. I am sure that quest for improvement never ends. I therefore submit that you always be happy with your work in it's present state, but never content.

I will also submit that you can certainly tell the difference between 'manual' and machine cut dovetails. The angles and widths of the pins are sometimes tell-tale. As I cut more and more of them, I'm less impressed by the precision and more impressed by the layout when viewing works of others.

All that being said, here are some tricks that work well for me (I'm sure you have many of your own):

- Experiment with softer hard woods. Working in softer hardwoods can forgive and favor undercutting the joints which allows them to compress into place. I just completed a butternut night table and it was a revelation. It also saws, chops, and pares much easier than harder woods. The wood choice can make so much difference in the quality of my joints as I'm learning.

- The most tedious part of the job for me is chopping the pin waste. It is possible to become very efficient at this, but on 6 deep drawers a much faster way is to excavate with a trim router and a 1/4" spiral bit. Even better, if you are doing through dovetails and make your tails wide enough, you can use a 1/2" bearing guided mortise bit. You saw the pin walls manually, then use the mortise bit to take out all the waste. The bearing rides on the sawn walls and leaves perfect bottoms in no time. There's no risk.

- Get a fishtail chisel for half blinds...

[Andrew Hughes]

I have some of my Dt work that I did at least 15 years ago.When I did them they were tight and now gappy.
So I'm sure some of my older Dt work that's out there looks like crap but started out very nice.
As long as it still does what it was made to do then I did a good job.Heres A step stool I made at least fifteen years ago.

Nothing lasts forever
Nothing is ever finished
And Nothing is perfect.

Aj

[Reinis Kanders]

One has to have some sort of fun in this even though it might hurt at the times

[Mike Henderson]

Nothing lasts forever
Nothing is ever finished
And Nothing is perfect.

Aj

Sage advice.

Mike

[Robert Engel]

Thanks Stanley and Brian for your thoughts. When I started the project I was determined to do as much as I could totally by hand.

I guess I'm chasing an idea which either my skill level and time has negatively impacted. I do have an idea of what I want to do and it is simple: be an excellent craftsman by practicing skills and challenge myself with higher and higher expectations with each project. What I've come up against is there is a balance between sacrificing your "standards" vs. getting a project finished in a reasonable time. With these drawers I quickly realized its 12-16 hours (which means 2 weeks for me) of chopping dovetails.

What my wife said hammered it home because I know in the end, only myself and another woodworker would know the difference, much less care, so I have opted for a faster route that will give me time to concentrate on the more important parts of the project. I think its just a real world decision.

While I'm not doing this for money I'm just as serious about the quality of my work but there's only so many hours in a day.....

[Brian Holcombe]

You'll have to determine your own way, for me I would those two weeks would be devoted to improving your ability to make dovetails meaning that next time you do them, maybe it takes 8 hours and they fit up better.

I chose to put myself through an apprenticeship of my own making, entirely with hand tools because I was determined to suffer until the point at which I could produce, I continue down that path. It becomes significantly more work for the same amount of reward over time, but it does reward greatly on the whole.

My first mortises probably took me an hour each, now they take 3 minutes.

[Prashun Patel]

"My first mortises probably took me an hour each, now they take 3 minutes". But you didn't count the 57 minutes to sharpen your chisel, Brian...

[Brian Holcombe]

Hah! Sometimes longer.

[Pat Barry]

... make my ww'ing experiences rather enjoyable instead of criticizing myself and getting depressed.

This is the main thing isn't it?

[Stewie Simpson]

If you are a professional, then budget, schedule, client's specs, and your own standards govern, so the goals are fairly clear cut.

If you are a hobbyist, then you need to figure out why you are going to the trouble of working wood, and what you want to accomplish. When these things are clear in your mind, everything else will fall in place, until it doesn't anymore.

Excellent advice Stanley.

Staying a several B&B's with antique furniture I noticed much detail paid to the facade but not the interior. Frankly, quite shocked to see dovetail drawers I would have thrown in the trash and nails holding runners and kickers in place. Only to find out this was typical of the day in cabinetmaker's shops.

That's a misnomer Robert. Each individual cabinet maker shop would have determined its own standard of ethics.