Selling Green Lumber

[dirk martin]

The WoodFinder site I mentioned before (no personal connection) may be a good place to check prices on green lumber. Click on "Green" and search and it will give list by state. Even if a supplier does not list green he may give green prices over the phone.

I looked at just one entry, and that because I'm familiar with this guy and his operation and I've bought from him in the past. He has some large buildings full of drying and dry lumber and the lat time I was there huge piles of logs waiting to be sawn. His sawmill was incredible. This guy is in TN which may be different from other areas. Most of his inventory is dry; green would be cheaper.

OUR CURRENT INVENTORY:
Ash 4/4 & 8/4, air dried $1.00/BF, kiln dried $1.50.
Eastern Red Cedar Under 10-in. wide, $.80/BF, 10 in. and wider, $1.00/BF select @ $2.00/BF.
Cherry mill run, air dried $1.50/BF; kiln dried $2.00/BF.
Eastern Yellow Pine $.50/BF; 12" and wider $1.00/BF.
Poplar air dried $.50/BF, kiln dried $1.00; 12" and wider air dried $1.00, kiln dried $1.50/BF.
Red Oak 4/4 and 8/4, #2, $.50/BF; #1, $.90/BF; quartersawn, $1.50/BF.
All #1 White Oak same as Red Oak.
Eastern Sugar Maple 4/4, air dried $1.00/BF;
Black Walnut air dried $2.00, KD $2.50.
Pawlonia Wild-grown 4/4, $4.00/BF.
SASAFRAS GREEN 4/4 $3.50 KD $4.00 BF.

Looking at this makes me want to go buy some Ash before all of it is gone. I don't have any Ash trees on my property. I am surprised the price of Sassafras is that much higher than cherry or walnut. I recently dropped a large standing dead sassafras, about 18" at the base, great wood but not always easy to find.

JKJ

I don't know where on earth you found this, on Woodfinder.
I can't seem to find pricing on anything, anywhere up there....

[John K Jordan]

I don't know where on earth you found this, on Woodfinder.
I can't seem to find pricing on anything, anywhere up there....

I went to Woodfinder, http://www.woodfinder.com/
Clicked on "Green Lumber", clicked Search

I found MZ Enterprises under TN:
http://www.woodfinder.com/listings/001341.php

Another place near me I've bought from that ONLY sells green lumber is Oak Ridge Hardwoods, Inc. (865) 435-0054
This is a HUGE operation, amazing to watch the big vertical band mill sawing, then edgers, trimmers, grading, mulch chipping, etc. They probably have 25 guys working full time. Unless they've changed I don't think they keep inventory except for piles of hundreds of logs - they saw, sort, and ship. I've bought green oak for farm use from them by hand loading my trailer with the grade I wanted on a day they were sawing oak. I've also sold oak logs to them before I got my own sawmill. There is continuous traffic of trucks delivering logs and lumber leaving by tractor trailer load. A big circular conveyor system feeds a constant stream of logs to the blade. At a board every few seconds I'm guessing this operation might saw and sell 70 oak trees in one day!

I'm sure they will quote prices over the phone.

JKJ

[dirk martin]

Wow....would love to see that operation.
Thanks John.

[Mark Bolton]

Looking at this makes me want to go buy some Ash before all of it is gone. I don't have any Ash trees on my property. I am surprised the price of Sassafras is that much higher than cherry or walnut. I recently dropped a large standing dead sassafras, about 18" at the base, great wood but not always easy to find.

JKJ

Too bad your not closer. Ive got 115 acres and been trying to get all the ash down as its all deader than 4 o'clock. Ive probably got about 20MBF on the skidway already. Some monster 40" butt logs. The stuff that has been dead a while is a challenge to get on the ground without busting but every time I think Im getting close I find dozens more trees lol. Ill never get it all out.

[John K Jordan]

Too bad your not closer. Ive got 115 acres and been trying to get all the ash down as its all deader than 4 o'clock. Ive probably got about 20MBF on the skidway already. Some monster 40" butt logs. The stuff that has been dead a while is a challenge to get on the ground without busting but every time I think Im getting close I find dozens more trees lol. Ill never get it all out.

Are you going to saw and kiln dry? If so I might be talked into driving up for a trailer load. (Is it legal to haul ash lumber from state to state if not kiln dried?)

JKJ

[Mark Bolton]

Im going to saw all I can. I have the skidway loaded up with Ash and Cherry right now. I had a wierd storm blow through that uprooted almost all my cherry trees. Trying to get them out before they spoil. Perhaps you could haul back cants or something. Sucks to haul green wood (pay to haul water).

[Mark Bolton]

PS. I dont think the transportation is an issue especially if its sawn. The borer lives in the Cambium layer under the bark. I suppose any live edge stuff would be suspect but I doubt it.

[Dave Fritz]

Just a thought on the white oak. Wonder if it might not have more value if it's quarter sawn?

I have a friend that has a saw like that and he saws wood for others, in fact he does mine. I don't think that's his primary source of income however. Any sawyers I know do custom work and do it part time.

[Bradley Gray]

Great thread. I buy green oak for .25 in 700 BF units here in Southern Ohio.

I don't think anyone has mentioned yet the speed with which green lumber will stain and grow mold when stacked w/o stickers.

When i buy green wood I try to get it the day it is sawn and make stacking with sticks a high priority to avoid degrade.

[John K Jordan]

Just a thought on the white oak. Wonder if it might not have more value if it's quarter sawn?

The sawmill I mentioned in east TN does get more for quartersawn, white or red: 4/4 and 8/4, #2, $.50/BF; #1, $.90/BF; quartersawn, $1.50/BF.

[Phillip Mitchell]

I agree with a lot of what has been discussed so far. Bradley is exactly right about green lumber staining and molding quickly if not stickered.

I have a couple years experience trying to make a living from, among other forestry-related endeavors, selective harvest logging and running a portable band mill and selling lumber (green and dried.) I don't currently do this anymore as I couldn't find a way, in my situation and limited amount of capital, to keep things going and be profitable. I was lucky to break even sometimes. There is a reason that 98% of all profitable sawmills are quite large in scale and output. It's a matter of scale and it's really tough to make a profit as a small-time saw miller, especially if you're just getting into it and climbing the learning curve of all that has to do with quality sawing.

The real question I see here is: Are you expecting/needing to profit from this venture or is this just for fun and experience? Also, is the LT30 a hydraulic or manual mill? That will make an enormous difference in viability of any profit.

If you are trying to profit, I would suggest bypassing the time and effort of sawing the oak yourself and just selling the logs to a mill / letting the logger buy the stand. At the relatively low price that oak (especially green) usually goes for, I just don't see any way to break even from this. What/how are you paying the logger to fell the trees? What is the average size of the trees, straight logs, limbs and branches how far up, etc? This will all factor into the potential quality of your lumber and how much of it will be worth sawing/selling.

The only way I know to actually profit from a portable band mill is to travel to other folks property (where there is a load of logs already neatly decked and waiting on you) and saw for them either at a bd/ft price if it's standard logs and lumber dimensions, or by the hour to do custom sawing for situations where you can't just crank out 2000 bd ft + a day. A well maintained, hydraulic mill and an experienced and keen operator are crucial to the success of this. There are a lot of costs that add up when running a band mill all day and it's pretty easy to loose money by not producing enough lumber / charging enough to cover costs.

I don't mean to discourage you and I apologize if you already know some of these points, but I just felt compelled to pass along some of the things I've learned from trying it for a while. If this is just for fun, then don't worry too much about what I stated above, but it's still good info to keep in your head as it costs money to operate the mill and saw lumber either way.

[James White]

Those prices in TN are truly amazing. Things are a bit different up here in CT. See the link below for a local retailer. But I also know that loggers are getting $650MBF for whatever hardwoods they put on the truck. In other words it can be hickory and ash or cherry and maple and they still get the $650.
Scroll down to the Walnut for some sticker shock!

http://parkervillewoodproducts.com/d...g-and-pricing/

James

OUR CURRENT INVENTORY:
Ash 4/4 & 8/4, air dried $1.00/BF, kiln dried $1.50.
Eastern Red Cedar Under 10-in. wide, $.80/BF, 10 in. and wider, $1.00/BF select @ $2.00/BF.
Cherry mill run, air dried $1.50/BF; kiln dried $2.00/BF.
Eastern Yellow Pine $.50/BF; 12" and wider $1.00/BF.
Poplar air dried $.50/BF, kiln dried $1.00; 12" and wider air dried $1.00, kiln dried $1.50/BF.
Red Oak 4/4 and 8/4, #2, $.50/BF; #1, $.90/BF; quartersawn, $1.50/BF.
All #1 White Oak same as Red Oak.
Eastern Sugar Maple 4/4, air dried $1.00/BF;
Black Walnut air dried $2.00, KD $2.50.
Pawlonia Wild-grown 4/4, $4.00/BF.
SASAFRAS GREEN 4/4 $3.50 KD $4.00 BF.
JKJ

[Perry Hilbert Jr]

I think it depends on the old location location location. I live in a manufacturing area with some machinery makers. Small mills make their bucks selling components for skids and packing. Especially for oak. The local mill I deal with mostly does skid boards but does some cherry lumber for sale. Oak fence boards for horsey folks and some custom beams for folks repairing old farm houses. There is a guy that has a portable mill that will come to your premises and custom cut. I forget what he gets per hour and blade. My neighbor had him saw some giant poplars into boards and slabs. You really need two extra hands to carry and stack the cut lumber while the miller operates the saw. If I were just cutting a few dozen trees, I'd hire the miller to come cut the wood rather than buy the mill. I had an idea about having a mill cut some large poplar or pine beams and cutting them into giant lincoln logs to make a small 10 x 12 cabin. Something with standard size interchangeable joints so it could be taken apart and moved. I have the large poplars. I would just hire the guy to come and cut the beams.