First Table Saw Advice

[paul cottingham]

Honestly, if I was to start all over again, I wouldn't buy a table saw. I would buy a track saw and build a good assembly table designed for holding the track as well. If I had the money, I would buy a festool, with the dust collector, only because I know how well it works. If the dewalt (or any others) has good dust collection, go with it.

[scott spencer]

I think an aspect that most beginners don't anticipate is the significance in the difference in the space in front of the blade when you compare a portable and a full size stationary saw. The bigger saws offer much more area to get the board flat, settled, and flush with the fence before the board contacts the blade. The smaller landing zone of a portable saw inherently makes it harder to get good accuracy. A full size saw is also much more stable, easier to upgrade, more feasible to fix in the event of a failure, and more compatible with standard accessories. I understand that you're facing space constraints, so you may not have the option of a full size saw, but if at all possible, there's really a huge difference IMO.

[Lucas Hurt]

Scott,
Thanks very much for your input. The limited "throat" distance of the jobsite saws was a concern and your reply indicates that it was appropriate. It seems to make room for the riving knife, the blade is moved closer to the front of the table without increasing the depth at all. Many of the European style table saws are deeper than they are wide. I guess these types are saws are meant more specifically for ripping, but I've been borrowing an older contractor saw without wings which looks like Scott's top picture but without the wings. It just makes for a very deep footprint with the motor hanging off the back. I've never seen an infeed table for a portable jobsight saw, but one that folded up would be pretty handy.

The responses have all been great. What I really want is a small footprint hybrid saw but the truth is without increasing the space I have to work in, that is just not a feasible option. I've seen Norms videos about table saw use, but perhaps I'll rewatch them. Is there something similar for track saws? I see so many youtube wood workers using a table saw, but not many using a track saw.

There certainly isn't a perfect option for me at the moment. Well the Erika would be sweet but I can't justify the expense!

I'll keep trying to get my borrowed saw dialed in. That will be a good learning experience and should help be make a better decision.

[Jim Becker]

My advise is always and remains to buy the best table saw (or any other tool) you can afford...it's not your "first" table saw...it's "your table saw" and quality counts for a lot for both precision and safety.

[James White]

How important is moving it to the outdoors? Perhaps those tasks can be done with a circular saw or cheep portable table saw. If it is not a deal breaker than Ridgid Contractor saws have a great reputation for bang for the buck. You may be able to find one on the used market for $300 to $400. I have seen a lot of votes for a track saw. But in my opinion I would never give up my table saw for one. Despite having owned one for many years. I may even upgrade to the bigger Festool track saw for its 2-1/8" depth of cut. But that is for breaking down large stock. I just find it too awkward for run of the mill tasks. Especially for projects like small boxes where dados, box joints and precise miters are important.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/RIDGID-13...4512/202500206

James

[Lucas Hurt]

Getting down to a final decision. Basically a choice between a new Delta 36-725 for $600, and four used options,
a BT3000 for $150, (http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/tls/5815047660.html)
good condition Craftsman 113 for $200, (http://seattle.craigslist.org/sno/tls/5860088894.html) not the actual saw
and a Delta 36-650 contractor saw for $225.(http://seattle.craigslist.org/skc/tls/5854038656.html)

The Bt3000 has the smallest footprint. The delta hybrid seems pretty solid and doesn't have the big motor hanging off the back which I like. Is the craftsman with a fence upgrade comparable to the new Delta, or is that just silly talk?

Thanks for your patience, I realize that at this point it's really up to me to make a decision.

If you can offer any advice comparing the two Deltas, that might be helpful. Also, would the delta contractor saw be much better than the craftsman, my gut says yes.

Update: delta contractor saw dropped price to $200 to match the craftsman. Having a hard time justifying 400 extra for the newer delta. So 90% sure I'll go with the user delta saw.

[Michael Zerance]

I have no experience with any of those saws but I never liked the idea of the open webbing in the extension wings like the Craftsman has.

If those were my choices, I'd be all over that Delta for $200.

[Greg Peterson]

I have experience with the BT3000 and the Craftsman.

I would take the BT3000 over the Craftsman.
More portable, pretty decent dust collection, riving knife, accurate and smaller footprint.

The Craftsman will throw dust everywhere, will require an aftermarket fence, the motor hanging out the back takes up a lot of room and if the belt guard is missing poses a safety risk And because of the way it's designed, you will find trying to make any cuts off 90 degrees very challenging.

Moving the blade off 90 degrees essentially "twists" the trunnion. At 90 degrees, you can easily set the blade parellel to the fence. But once you start tilting the blade, the back side of the blade starts to pull away from the fence. Or maybe it pulls in closer to the fence, I can't remember. Regardless, the cutting plane loses parallel as you move it off 90 degrees.

Finally, that Craftsman weighs a lot. It's portable in the sense that two or more people can relocate it. But it is not portable by contemporary standards. Not to mention if you move it (as in carry it, transport it....) you'll probably want to recalibrate the tool.

[Jim Dwight]

I would also go with the Ryobi (and I did). I kind of like the look of the web top of the Craftsman but I've never used one and I might not like it if I had it. I don't like the sheet metal side tables of the used Delta but you could replace them with melamine.

There used to be a website for the Ryobi saws and there still kind of is but it doesn't get the traffic it used to get. It was BT3Central and is now The Sawdust Zone. If you want information on that saw, it is a good source. That BT3000 is essentially the same as my BT3100 except for cosmetic things and the shims. You can change the BT3000 shims to the BT3100 style for not a lot of money. But if you keep the BT3000 ones lubricated, it should be OK. The shims separate the carrier for the arbor from the stationary part of the saw (two cast aluminum pieces from each other). The 3000 was more expensive than the 3100, I think initially they were about $700. Things I like about it include:

The rip fence moves very easily, locks front and back, is easy to adjust, and stays adjusted. (The other saws you are looking at might have a good fence but it would be the deciding factor between them for me - a saw that you have to check all the time is a hassle)

Blade has very little runout. It is belt driven with 3.5 inches rip capacity and can take a full 13/16 dado stack (but 6 inch, not an 8 inch).

Dust collection. Most of the dust comes out the 2.5 inch port on the back. I connect my shop vacuum to it and rarely have to clean out under it.


Easy to make zero clearance throat plates for.

Good riving knife setup. It isn't a little lever like the newest saws but it is just two nuts to remove and replace.

Good functioning micropositioner for the fence. I don't know if you can still get them but they are handy, especially for cutting tenons.

It is just an accurate little saw with adequate power. Good choice if you are space challenged.

[Lucas Hurt]

Well, I have the Delta contractor saw in my basement. Thanks for the positive suggestions for the BT3000. I really wanted something more substantial. With the contractor saw, I've got a decent base to learn from. I'll keep the BT3000 in mind if I ever decide that I'd rather have the space back.

Here are some pictures as a thank you to those who helped out:
Actually, I can't get the pictures attached, but my computer is acting a little funny so the trouble is probably on my end. Maybe tomorrow.

[Jim Becker]

Lucas, I think that was a good decision to go with the contractor's style saw. It's a bit heavier and outside of efficiently cutting "really, really thick" material, pretty much as capable as a cabinet saw. It will be a good "heart" of your shop for a long time.

[Lucas Hurt]

I think I figured out the pictures. Needed to resize them first.
IMG_0472s.jpgIMG_0473s.jpgIMG_0475s.jpg

Very happy with first cut today. The blade run-out is less than 2 thousandths. The table top has a bump near the back of the throat plate cut-out. A straight-edge across the back of the table shows a gap of about 0.016 on one side. Otherwise the table seems really flat. I'm not sure whether to sand that out or not worry about it. I haven't put the wings on, actually the fence rails aren't even torqued down tight yet.

I made a zero clearance insert and used the router attachment for my dremel for the first time to make recesses for the feet (see third picture). Next I need shim the insert with either set screws or some other method to bring it nice and flush with the top.

I'm already thinking of a mobile base so I can put the saw against the wall when not in use. I also thought of a way to put the motor under the table top at least for none beveled cuts. The other thought I have is to make some additional bracing for the sheet metal cabinet.

After shimming the aluminum extrusion to the t-shaped fence casting, I'm still getting quite a bit of deflection at the loose end, around 10-15 thousandths with fairly low pressure. I'm not sure if adding face plates to both sides of the fence would affect this or even if the flex is in the extrusion or somewhere else. I'll figure it out eventually.

Anyway, quite happy with the quality of everything so far. There is a mount for a splitter that will tilt with the blade but it didn't come with the saw, so that's one more thing on the list. Actually, that should probably be first on the list.

[David Sloan]

I have had a Ryobi BT 3100 for 25 years. It is an amazing little saw and has served me well. While I have upgraded most of my tools over the years the Ryobi still works well for my needs. The fence is remarkably good, the sliding table is nice and I have a heavy router mounted in it. I have seen them on Craigslist for very little money. I wish Ryobi would start making it again. The 3100 is way better than the current Ryobi benchtop saw (or the Dewalt for that matter). I would also agree that having a good bandsaw (I have the Laguna 1412) is a great help if you are making boxes, model boats and toys. Good luck!