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Thread: carcass saw drifting to the left

  1. #16
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    It really didn't curve that much, not like a full width handsaw. Plus, it was set in a milled back so it was kept pretty straight. In my experience, most of any curve is removed after the saw is filed and set.

    Cutting the strip is another matter however. You would get a pretty good curl when using a shear. I would cut it long and then flip it around and cut it from the other direction to even it out.

    Tips of the trade. My only lament is that I could not watch the Ron Herman video on how to file saws back in the day when I got started.
    Last edited by Pete Taran; 10-19-2016 at 8:49 PM.

  2. #17
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    Its well worth mentioning that the odd tooth with slightly more set will have a slightly lower top line profile. A condition that's not hard to replicate with most hand held saw sets. For that reason, my personal preference is to give the tops of the teeth a light single pass with the jointing file after setting. After that, a light pass to each tooth with your taper or 3 square file will return them back to a sharp point. Advise to consider.

    Stewie;

  3. #18
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    Pete; most of the saw plate I use for making backsaws is still coiled. After shearing to length, the next thing I do is lightly joint all 4 sides side with a flat file. 9/10 cases it removes the stored memory of being coiled. The odd case is generally rectified after being toothed and fitted to its hardback. I shape all my saw teeth by file, and by deepening each of the tooth gullets in progressive passes, the saw plates flatness is not compromised. That's should not suggest I am trying to undermine the use of a Foley Machine.

    Stewie;

  4. #19
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    Stewie,

    Whatever works for you is fine by me. I am alway curious about why people don't want to use more automated methods though. Back in the day when Disston made more saws than anyone on the planet, they punched their saw teeth, one at a time with a hand operated punch.

    I used a rotating foley and once you understand the limitations and how to overcome them, it works great. I've done limited production runs since, and the ultimate is to cut them in stacks of 10 using a carbide dovetail cutter in a fixture on a mill. No tooth is more precise or sharp than one from a milling cutter spinning at 3000 rpm.

  5. #20
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    Pete; as I mentioned I have nothing against those that use a Foley Machine. I was merely pointing out that I take a different approach to shaping the saw teeth. Possibly more in line with those that aren't concerned about saving time.

    Stewie;

  6. #21
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    This old rip saw..
    rip saw.jpg
    was sharpened up a while back. It used to drift to the right.....badly. Stoned the teeth about 4 times, going from heel to toe..
    crosscut.jpg
    Not sure IF you can see the cut line, vs the sawn line. It now drifts ever so slightly to the left. Will have to go back and a pass down the left side.

    Unless this is more of an "Operator Error" sort of thing....

    Saw is a Keystone "Challenger" K-6-1/2. 5.5ppi, 26" long. I filed it rip this past summer.

  7. #22
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    We used a little "Burro" tooth punching machine,which I wish I still had. But,what the heck. I am not going to get back into making saws anyway,especially now that it apparently is impossible to buy USA made spring steel. If I was,I'd have to go with Austrian steel. I do have a small supply of USA spring steel should I ever want to make another saw or two. I DID buy a Foley from a member here,but have no space to set it up. At least,not unless I started actually USING it! We kept the cutter and the die from the little Burro quite sharp,so it left a minimum of burr to the teeth,and a minimum of affecting any curve. That as really a GREAT little machine. Very compact and could be lifted down and stored between uses. The Foley is a lot larger to do the same job.

    I prefer punching the teeth,too,especially with the trouble of getting suitable files,which I'd not want to wear out un necessarily by filing whole teeth out. On 1095 at 52 RC. hardness,it was hard enough on good USA made Nicholsons anyway.

    I guess it's too late,Stewie,manufacturing spring steel being what it is these days,but we took to buying PRE STRAIGHTENED spring steel after going through the first coiled up .042" steel for crosscut and rip saws. We just bought it longer than we'd need by a few inches(to be safe). Now,I don't know WHAT you could get.

    As I have mentioned here,we discovered that bending the curved plate and pouring boiling water over it would very effectively eliminate the curve,and no harm at all to the temper(which was done at 750º F..) I'd rather do that,and eliminate the curve from the whole plate,rather than trying to eliminate it by doing stuff to the teeth,which process will be changed by subsequent refiling. Then what? Can the plate go back to being curved? Just get rid of the WHOLE plate's curve to begin with.
    Last edited by george wilson; 10-20-2016 at 9:13 AM.

  8. #23
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    George; read my post again.

    Pete; most of the saw plate I use for making backsaws is still coiled. After shearing to length, the next thing I do is lightly joint all 4 sides side with a flat file. 9/10 cases it removes the stored memory of being coiled. The odd case is generally rectified after being toothed and fitted to its hardback. I shape all my saw teeth by file, and by deepening each of the tooth gullets in progressive passes, the saw plates flatness is not compromised. That's should not suggest I am trying to undermine the use of a Foley Machine.

    Stewie;

  9. #24
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    Is this the machine? I didn't have the room for it, otherwise I might have made an offer for it...
    Belsaw grinder.jpg
    There was a grinder of sorts, sitting the the left of it, as well..
    grinder.jpg
    Not sure IF these two were part of a set.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stewie Simpson View Post
    Pete; most of the saw plate I use for making backsaws is still coiled. After shearing to length, the next thing I do is lightly joint all 4 sides side with a flat file. 9/10 cases it removes the stored memory of being coiled.
    The "memory" in this case is just strain, meaning that some of the steel has been stressed beyond its yield strength and has bent. Stress in a bent sheet is higher at the surfaces than at the center (for simple bending of a thin sheet it's actually zero at the center), so any strain/bending would occur at the surfaces.

    It therefore makes sense that jointing the surfaces would eliminate "memory", as you're removing exactly the part of the metal that's most likely to have been bent.
    Last edited by Patrick Chase; 10-20-2016 at 8:02 PM.

  11. #26
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    Just an FYI. A properly sharpened and aligned ( punch and die ) will have a minimal burr. Filing does not create much of a burr at all. After about 200 to 300 saws I believe I can safely say it doesn't matter if you file from both sides or just one side. In either case, a very light final pass seems to remove any remnants of fine burrs.
    That being said, if the steel is softer than usual, ( ie: less than 48 to 51RC ) and there is a slight gap between the punch and die, you will no doubt see a more significant burr on the die side of the punched teeth. { Bet you couldn't guess how I know that. } The steel basically stretches before it shears. ( Deformation of solids )
    In any case, I have no doubt the company would take care of the saw if it becomes an issue. They have some pretty good customer service.

  12. #27
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    Thanks Ron; appreciate your feedback.

    regards Stewie;

  13. #28
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    I built a 20" back saw from a Bontz kit. It turned out great, has no vices. His formed back with the blade set in epoxy is really good.

    I wanted a tenon saw on steroids and I got it.

  14. #29
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    If I WERE to ever make a slotted saw back,which is not likely,I think I'd prefer to set the blade in a good grade of Loctite rather than epoxy. Epoxy can crack loose on a smooth surface like a saw blade. Loctite holds like crazy. They even use it on nuts and bolts on Indianapolis race cars instead of the old safety wires going through holes in the bolts and into castellated nuts. Those cars must survive incredible vibration at the speeds they run.Must really have been terrible trying to drive fast on a BRICK road,which was the track there many years ago,before it was paved over. They called the track "The brickyard".

  15. #30
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    George,
    I mis-spoke. I did bed mine in Loctite.

    Since my daughter-in-law is in marketing for Henkel, I use Loctite.
    Last edited by lowell holmes; 10-22-2016 at 4:43 PM.

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