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Thread: carcass saw drifting to the left

  1. #1
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    carcass saw drifting to the left

    I have a gently used L/N carcass saw that drifts to the left. It will pull about 1/64th of an inch in a two inch cut. I only noticed it while cutting the cheek of a dove tail. I don't think it is my technique, since I don't have the problem with other saws. Should I ask L/N to fix it, or run a stone down the left side of the teeth?
    Life's too short to use old sandpaper.

  2. #2
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    Bob,

    You could try that, you could also apply more set to the other side and see if that corrects the problem. When the blades are made, there is a burr on the left side because that is the side that goes against the revolving punch. Even after filing, you need to compensate by applying less set to the blade side and more to the right so it's even on both sides. There are lots of ways to fix the problem to include lightly tapping the over set side. Stoning was always my last option as it affects the geometry of the edge of the tooth.

    Pete

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    I agree with Pete. Stoning is the last strategy to use since it removes metal.

    One other method is to equalise the set. Use the trick that Mike Wenzloff published: wrap a sheet of copy paper around the plate/over the teeth (or use a strip of blue tape). Then squeeze the teeth together inside a metal machinist's vise. The paper will prevent the set being flattened, but will even it up over the two sides. I have done this successfully on several occasions.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek

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    The thing about the squeezing together method described by Derek is that the steel may not get bent enough to actually effect a significant change in the set. This is because the steel will tend to spring back to its original position when the force is removed. You need to bend enough to 'plastically deform' the steel. Of course, try it, it can't hurt - but keep in mind it doesn't solve the problem for all conditions. In the case described, the set of the offending side will possibly be reduced enough to improve the situation though.

  5. #5
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    I have fixed this issue by gently stoning the teeth on the side the offset is to.

    Only stone 3 or 4 strokes at a time. Don't get carried away.

    That way you can see how much you have done before you go too far.

    I never worried too much about it, because I can always reset teeth (and have I might add).
    Last edited by lowell holmes; 10-19-2016 at 2:01 PM.

  6. #6
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    Just my nickle. Stoning should always be the last resort. IMHO it does nothing more than dull the teeth on that side. Cross cut saws in particular. ( No doubt what Pete was referring to. ) The before mentioned burr caused by the punch should be removed before the teeth are shaped, set and sharpened. Otherwise it can and may very well affect the setting process. I can not speak for the Lie Nielsen saw process, other than they are engineered well, but I do know some folks seem to think the burr is always removed through sharpening. Not necessarily. You may also just have a couple of rouge teeth out a little further, in which case the machinist vise may be of benefit, but will alter the geometry as well. Lastly, you may wish to place the saw plate back on a nice flat surface. Jointer, etc. ( I use a surface plate ) holding the back flat on the surface, and compare the gap between the teeth and jointer surface when you flip the plate over. The gap between the teeth and surface should be the same on both sides. If not the plate and back slot are not co-planer. Hopefully I said that correctly, but either way, not likely the problem unless the spine slots are being compressed. That's another story. Best wishes, Ron

  7. #7
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    I don't disagree with Ron. In my case I had re-toothed two saws and was not worried about flattening the teeth. . The burrs on my saws was caused by filing, not punching. I file the teeth in my reworked saws. I don't have the capability of punching teeth. I maintain spacing with paper templates taped to the side of the saw plate. I've only told a bit of the process. The set was put in with saw sets and was not uniform as a machine might do. The set looked uniform, a couple of the teeth were out and I had the choice of squeezing with pliers or filing.

    Obviously you do not want to change the geometry of the teeth.
    Ron is the professional and I am an old duffer.

    That being said, I have sent two older saws to Lie Nielsen and they returned to me perfectly sharpened and set.
    Last edited by lowell holmes; 10-19-2016 at 6:02 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lowell holmes View Post
    I don't disagree with Ron. In my case I had re-toothed two saws and was not worried about flattening the teeth. . The burrs on my saws was caused by filing, not punching
    Wait, let me guess: You're following Ron Herman's advice and only filing from one side?

    If you took your final (sharpening) filing passes from both sides then you wouldn't need to fix that :-).

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    Patrick; your not suggesting you know more about sharpening a hand saw than Ron Herman.

    Stewie ;

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    As Ron rightly points out, the teeth that are machined punched will produce a pronounced burr on the underside. I

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stewie Simpson View Post
    Patrick; your not suggesting you know more about sharpening a hand saw than Ron Herman.

    Stewie ;
    Nah, I was mostly lightly ribbing Lowell because he suggests that people watch the Herman video whenever saw sharpening comes up, hence the ":-)".

    I'm well aware that the "file from one/both sides" thing is an Eternal Flame, about which experts disagree and get better results than I ever could both ways. I personally do final sharpening from both sides (shaping is another matter) because I prefer to avoid any inherently asymmetric steps in my process, but that's just me.
    Last edited by Patrick Chase; 10-19-2016 at 8:04 PM.

  12. #12
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    As Ron rightly points out, the teeth that are machined punched will produce a pronounced burr on the underside. There's a fair chance LN would be using this process with their hand saws. That's not to suggest that the burr formed cannot be removed during later fine tuning if their quality control is set up accordingly.

  13. #13
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    I'm sure they are using the same equipment and methods I used when I sold them Independence Tool back in 1998. As Stewie and others pointed out, the burr needs to be stoned away before filing. I think there is more here than meets the eye though, burr or not, the steel is stressed from being punched, and it is MUCH easier to set it on one side than the other. I used to compensate for this by increasing the set on the non-stressed side and decreasing the set on the stressed side. By stressed side, I mean the side that is facing the anvil of the punch. The effect can be very dramatic if you don't approach it carefully.

    This is assuming you like as little set as possible. If you set quite a bit, it doesn't make much difference. I always worked to have a total tooth width of .023" for a .020" plate. That's not a lot of room to maneuver, and the set has to be perfect for it to cut right.

    Hope this helps. BTW, I filed the several 1000 dovetails saws I made back in the day from the same side.

    Pete

  14. #14
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    Too much work swapping sides.

    I do shape the teeth by filing from one side only. If burrs occur, they are removed before sharpening.

    Actually, I learned to sharpen by watching Ron Herman's video. My saws are performing really well.

  15. #15
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    Pete; how did you overcome curvature of the saw plate after it was fed through the toothing machine.

    regards Stewie;

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