Help: Painting Stained Ash Cabinets

[Mike Romo]

Hello all,

The boss wants our old cabinets painted white and I want to run my plan by the good people of SMC to see if I'm on the right track. I'm all for planning everything up front so there are minimal surprises.

The current kitchen cabinets are stained & varnished ash plywood. Plan is to have new shaker doors built (hard maple/mdf panel), then re-finish the existing face frames and carcasses.

Plan of attack to re-finish carcasses is as follows:

1) Clean with TSP substitute to get as much grease off as possible

2) Sand face frames down to bare wood since some varnish is already peeling

3) Prime with stain blocking primer --> I'm thinking BIN is the best option here due to tannin and any leftover grease. Are there any concerns using BIN here? Too brittle?

4) Fill grain with Timbermate slurry

5) Sand smooth

6) Spray white pigmented Target EM6500

7a) Sand? --> Not sure if I need to sand EM6500 to get a good bond with EM9000?

7) Spray clear EM9000 for additional protection --> Will EM9000 give a plastic look over the white coats or is this a good choice? Not sure if I could also use their conversion varnish EM8000?

[Wayne Lomman]

Mike, I don't know if I qualify as one of the good people but I offer my experience anyway. Firstly, I am not giving an opinion on the good or otherwise properties of Target Coatings. We have different products in Australia for the different environment. This advice is based on general principles.

I would consider combining steps 3 and 4 and use the Target HSF5000 primer/filler/sealer instead of the other products. It is better to use products from the same manufacturer so that you know they are compatible. It also says on the tech data sheets to be careful when using wood grain fillers as you may get adhesion problems. This is sales speak for 'don't say we didn't warn you.'

7a is a required step if you are going to clear coat.

As a general comment, I always do white jobs with a 2 pack polyurethane system from an auto shop. Primer and top coat and the job is done. Cheers

[Mike Romo]

Thanks for the response, Wayne.

I'd like to go the route you suggest and have looked at the HSF5000, but the reason I was going with BIN was to ensure I don't get any bleed through from the ash. I have no idea this is a legitimate concern, but I have read that ash can bleed (not as bad as cedar or redwood).

Curious on which data sheets you're referring to when you mention adhesion problems when using wood grain fillers. I want to make sure I do this thing right the first time!

[Wayne Lomman]

Mike, the EM9000 tech data sheet is the one that refers to wood grain filler issues. Cheers

[Jim Becker]

BIN is pretty universal as a primer/sealer, but yes, there can potentially be adhesion issues with some finishes. You could consider putting the Target primer over it, although that raises cost. And do your grain filling before you prime with the BIN or in between two coats of primer...some grain fillers have "stuff" in them that's just not compatible with water borne finishes.

Check with Target about top coating the EM6500 with clear EM9000 or EM8000 to get their advise for sure.

[Mike Romo]

Thanks again, Jim.

I did have some doubt shooting EM6500 directly over the grain filler, so I will go on the safe side and prime over top of the filler as well, then shoot my pigmented coats.

Do you see any issue with using an oil-based stain blocking primer under EM6500? I'm going over ash, so I assume that can bleed tannin on me. I'd use BIN, but have some concerns about the brittle nature of the dry film. The other alternative would be to use SW Wood & Wall, then spot prime with BIN on bleeding spots, although I'm not sure how fast I would see tannin coming through.

EDIT: I'm reading now that ash has no tannic acid, therefore I should not have to use a stain blocking primer (ala oil based). Does everyone agree?

[Wayne Lomman]

Mike, whatever products you use, stick to a system from one manufacturer. When you are using a product for the first time or doing a type of job for the first time, this is the only safe way and the only way you will get product support from the manufacturer if there is a problem down the track.

Read the data sheets for your products. That is where you find what primers and/or top coats to use and in this case, what grain filling technique to use. I am using different products all the time and data sheets are a must.

A set-in-concrete rule for finishing is the more steps in the process, the more likely the failure. Keep it simple. As I said above, I use a 2 pack primer and 2 pack top coat and the job is done. Cheers